While yes the system located within the practice can queue calls, the 0844 allows something called Network Queuing. As most practices operate Advanced Access these days (ie book on the day appts) all patients tend to call at 8.30am when the practice opens. This usually results in a bottleneck as all the calls try to access the lines simultaneously. The 0844, or network, picks up each call (depending on the queue limit the PRACTICE has set) and feeds the calls to the practice as their lines become free. The number of calls in the queue is down to the practice and not down to NEG.  Some practices have an emergency option, ie 'Press 1 for an emergency' - meaning that these calls will get through straight away, whereas previously to Surgery Line the line would have been engaged as all lines were flooded with this bottleneck.

KVSimons wrote on Jul 26^th, 2007 at 6:18pm:


Miss Simmons,

Thank you for demonstrating to us that you do in fact have a reasonable technical mind and know full well how your system actually works.

People only became cross with you before when you tried to lie to deceive us by giving us the usual unbelievable NEG lie that 0844 was a local rate call.  I assume you have always known this lie to be untrue but as you have clearly managed to get away with it with the average non technically minded doctor or practice manager up to now you also thought you could pull the wool over our eyes?

Coming back to your helpful and unspun description of what your system is actually doing it is clear that all the system does is to provide a more egalitarian form of queuing that is less of a lottery but at the cost of patients paying more per minute, whereas engaged tones were previously free, even though redialling many times is undoubtedly frustrating.

Surely what patients actually want is a system where they can ring up any time after surgery has closed the previous evening and then enter a patient number via touch tones and be told by the IVR system  the appointment slot they have been allocated (or they could even request a slot and be told if it is still free and if not the nearest time to the requested time that is still free).  Also for all internet savvy customers its surely better to cut out the whole phone lark altogether and interact with a computerised doctors appointments diary.

However your system does not seem to be technologically advanced and still requires patients to interact with Beryl the receptionist with her biro who can only handle one call at a time and this ensures long queues at times which your company then directly or indirectly earns revenue share on.

Let me ask the following questions:-

1.  If we accept that small doctors practices are still in the dark ages and cannot yet allow direct interaction with their appointment diary online or they are worried that a computerised system would not prioritise patients in the greatest medical need then why did NEG not come up with a system using Voip 01/02 numbers which the doctor paid extra for to offer their patients a better system.  And if patients were actually allowed to shop around and choose the best doctor then they would choose one with a more modern and convenient interface and so doctors would be happy to pay the extra to have an increasing patient roll from which they make more money.

2.  Accepting that Beryl with the biro is disappointingly still the only one who can make the appointments then in order to offer patients the best service if the call queue is going to be over 1 minute then why don't you let the patient enter a phone number they can be called back on when call numbers have subsided and so they are left happy they did not have to queue any unreasonable length of time.

If Surgeryline actually cost patients no more than 01/02 calls but allowed the doctor to deliver a better service then everyone would be in favour but all it does is to accept the concept of a long queue without bringing in automation that could easily avoid it and also charges patients extra for the doctor's greater operational convenience

I must say you are a brave woman to come back to this thread in view of all that has been said about you and NEG, although like all good sales people you show yourself to have an incredibly thick hide and to never ever give up hope that you may wear a prospect down into submission if you spend long enough at it.

bbb_uk wrote on Jul 26^th, 2007 at 7:53pm:

Indeed. Ms Simons admits that the 0844 queues calls on the network, which surely means callers pay more because they are waiting.

The reason we and patients are up in arms about this is because of the call charges. The system should be operating on a number which costs the caller no more than an 01/02 call.

Furthermore, either service providers are misleading surgeries and/or surgeries are under the impression that 0844 is "not much more expensive than" or the same as a "local" call. It is surely the provider's (eg NEG) duty to put them right on this and I refer you back to the article referred to here from the Norwich Evening News:

Quote:

Quite clearly Ms Hardinge:
1. has no idea of the real cost of a "local" call.
2. does not understand that 0844 numbers are revenue sharing (of which her surgery presumably shares in). Furthermore, she apparently expects other parties, namely originating communications providers, to fill the gap to pay for the revenue sharing! She does not have even a basic understanding of telecoms!!

I am glad that she doesn't run my GP's surgery as she clearly acts without finding out the facts.

KVSimons wrote on Jul 26^th, 2007 at 9:15pm:


It is good to know that deep below the oodles of spin much preferred by your company there is a person who is well aware of the real facts.  I do accept that there are probably endless doctors out there using hideously primitive PSTN phone systems that need upgrading but I don't see why the patients have to pay for this directly any more than they should have to pay directly for any new medical instruments or consultation couches the practice may acquire.

To be honest I think people are being a little too hard when they vent all their spleen on this matter on NEG.  The fact of the matter is that as long as a useless and hijacked regulator allows the clarity of the UK telephone numbering systems to be totally corrupted and allows lower cost premium rate numbers to mascarade as local rate, while doing nothing whatsoever to even make false claims they are local rate or low cost illegal, there will inevitably be an NEG that takes advantage of the situation.  And ditto NEG could not exist without the active connivance of the NHS who is prepared to allow hidden extra taxation on patients paying directly for their doctors new swithchboard equipment rather than saying no this is wrong and that doctors must pay directly for their own infrastructure investment out of their existing budgets.

I must admire your boldness in posting in this thread, which does at least suggest a certain belief on your part in the democratic process of open and healthy public debate.  I suspect you are probably the exception that proves the rule at NEG and that none of your colleagues would probably have any time at all for an activity which might distract them from signing up yet more unsuspecting practices and thus further stoking up the monthly sales commission rolling in to their bank accounts.

Quote:


An NEG employee with a sense of humour would horribly shatter our illusions about a typical member of NEG's staff.

But how do you square all this with your conscience when you think of poor 80 year old pensioners with no phone at home using a public payhone and having to pay 13 times as much to call an NEG doctor's surgery as they would if their doctor still used an 01/02 number.

Ah I was forgetting that a conscience is clearly a disqualifying factor for being allowed to work at NEG in the first place.

KVSimons wrote on Jul 26^th, 2007 at 9:15pm:
Your company exploits the public. It also lies regarding call costs. 'Nuff said.

KVSimons wrote on Jul 26^th, 2007 at 6:18pm:


To Ms Simons,
so the system in the practice can queue calls.  Then "the 0844, or network"  also sets up a queue.   What do you mean by "the network"?    Do you mean, you (NEG) have a server on which you store the calls and then forward them to the practice?   Is my understanding correct or does it work another way?
 
What is the point of having 2 queues?   One feeding the other, what is the benefit?

"...most practices operate Advanced Access these days (ie book on the day appts) ..."    Don't you mean time limited access?  or restricted access?    Old fashioned retarded access?    Surely Advanced Access would be booking in advance, say next day or next few days?  Or even better, on-line access to the doctor's appointments diary for on-line booking using advanced techniques, as some practices already do?     Your use of the word Advanced seems to be an abuse of the English language --- or is it just another of the NEG lies designed to mislead and confuse the public (and maybe the doctors?)?

"Some practices have an emergency option, ie 'Press 1 for an emergency' - meaning that these calls will get through straight away..."     Do you mean these calls simply jump to the front of the queue?    They still won't be answered if the receptionist/s are engaged.     This is still not a benefit or feature of 0844 ---- it is a very simple bit of programming in the "system".    

"The number of calls in the queue is down to the practice and not down to NEG."     Which queue are you talking about here?     Can the doctor set the limit for both queues?    

Surely if the comparison includes mobile phones then it can be argued 0844 numbers are up to 30p per minute more expensive and the motion needs to condemn the sluggardly inaction of Ofcom over this issue rather than praising the evil conniving so and sos.

loddon wrote on Jul 28^th, 2007 at 9:00am:


But its deadly and more expensive sibling 0871 is waiting in the wings to almost fully replace it thanks to the connivance of double dealing, double talking Ofcom and ICSTIS.

And perhaps some like the BBC will instead go to 0844 at 5p per minute at all times where there is no ICSTIS control at all.  After all if doctors can use 0844 with the DH's approval then why not the BBC..................................