SAYNOTO0870.COM - NEG propaganda

NGMsGhost Supreme Member Offline The Forum Ghost of NonGeographicalMan<b r /> Posts: 2,720 Surrey, United Kingdom Gender:	Re: NEG propaganda Reply #240 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 4:57am idb wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 1:21am: Nevertheless, we are going to investigate the use of these numbers.” >> One wonders what their investigation will reveal?
Back to top	<div style= IP Logged

Heinz

Supreme Member

Offline

Posts: 1,362
Essex

Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #241 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 9:15am

NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 4:57am:

One wonders what their investigation will reveal?

That over 1200 NHS GPs' surgeries have already been hoodwinked into changing over and NHS patients, who have already paid for the NHS and GPs' (generous) salaries via overt and covert taxation, are now also having to pay rip-off rates for their calls and, thereby, are putting more money into GPs and NEG's pockets whenever they wish to contact their surgery?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 1:46pm by Heinz »

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015

IP Logged

NGMsGhost

Supreme Member

Offline

The Forum Ghost of NonGeographicalMan<b
r />

Posts: 2,720
Surrey, United Kingdom
Gender: male

Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #242 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 9:38am

Heinz wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 9:15am:

That over 1200 NHS GPs' surgeries have already been hoodwinked into changing over and NHS patients, who have already paid for the NHS and GPs' (generous) salaries via overt and covert taxation, are now having to pay rip-off rates for their calls and, thereby, are putting more money into GPs and NEG's pockets whenever they wish to contact their surgery?

Clearly one certainly can hope so.

But one has a terrible feeling that pressure may be applied from on high to this PCT CEO and threats about the security of his job made if he does not find that this new high tech system cannot be satisfactorily funded unless the NEG 0844 model is used.

Of course perhaps this CEO is a maverick and/or is on the verge of retiring or wanting to move on to another kind of job. In which case he may be prepared to produce a report that tells the truth about the grotesque misuse of these covert premium rate numbers.

What this does show though is that all of you who have a doctor's surgery that uses an 0844 number must go through the complaints procedure to the top level at your PCT in order to hopefully cause other similar reviews of the appropriateness of the use of NEG 0844 numbers to take place.

Back to top

<div style=

IP Logged

SilentCallsVictim

Supreme Member

Offline

aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494

Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #243 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 10:01am

NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 9:38am:

... one has a terrible feeling that pressure may be applied from on high to this PCT CEO and threats about the security of his job made if he does not find that this new high tech system cannot be satisfactorily funded unless the NEG 0844 model is used.

Perhaps, but then again, we may not be completely wasting our time.

NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 9:38am:

What this does show though is that all of you who have a doctor's surgery that uses an 0844 number must go through the complaints procedure to the top level at your PCT in order to hopefully cause other similar reviews of the appropriateness of the use of NEG 0844 numbers to take place.

Exactly. When combined with pressure from the top, this should fix it.

Back to top

@fairtelecoms (tweets)

IP Logged

jimnutt Newbie Offline Posts: 5 West Sussex Gender:	Re: NEG propaganda Reply #244 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 10:18am The West Sussex County Times ran an article last week about the introduction of 0844 numbers in the Horsham area, and has been inundated with letters and e-mails of complaint from its readers. Another follow-up article is due on Friday. . .
Back to top	Jim IP Logged

derrick Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,124	Re: NEG propaganda Reply #245 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 1:42pm I have e-mailed Paul Bates at Worcestershire PCT,(re reply#240 above), congratulating him on his investigation,and pointing him in the direction of this site and in particular this thread, the e-mail was opened 40 minutes ago so I will let you know if he responds
Back to top	IP Logged

sherbert Supreme Member Offline Posts: 2,011 Gender:	Re: NEG propaganda Reply #246 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 7:29am Read this, typical... http://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/Health-phone-system-chaos.3134861.jp
Back to top	IP Logged

Heinz Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,362 Essex	Re: NEG propaganda Reply #247 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 8:56am It appears that article has been 'got at' by NEG - the 'Add your comments' link has mysteriously disappeared.
Back to top	After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015 IP Logged

NGMsGhost

Supreme Member

Offline

The Forum Ghost of NonGeographicalMan<b
r />

Posts: 2,720
Surrey, United Kingdom
Gender: male

Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #248 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 9:10am

This is only 7 miles down the road from me and comes after a very recent hunt on my part had at that stage indicated no 0844 NEG numbers in Dorking or Horsham or my surrounding villages. The only nearby NEG surgeries were in airport worker Crawley.

I clearly need to write a letter or send a press release to the paper entering in to the debate and pointing out I am a former local district councillor and national anti 084/7 campaigner who had a resolution passed on neighbouring Mole Valley District Council to make sure that they never used these ripoff phone numbers.

Also perhaps directing people in the West Sussex County Times to the debate that is going on here as well as to our website in general.

Back to top

<div style=

IP Logged

SilentCallsVictim

Supreme Member

Offline

aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494

Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #249 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 9:32am

[quote author=sherbert link=1160182005/240#247 date=1187940548]Read this, typical...

http://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/Health-phone-system-chaos.3134861.jp
[/quote]

"Typical" in that it attacks the system for being simply "new" and "controversial" without pointing out what is truly wrong about it, other than it being likely to fail, as with any new technology.

The true issue is this NHS GP using a revenue-sharing NGN to fund delivery of its services by collecting money from patients as they use them.

The explanation in the pdf file linked to at [url]http://www.parksurgery.com/[/url] points out the difference between "0844 numbers" and "0870 or premium rate numbers" simply in terms of the lesser cost - "0844 numbers cost just over 4p per minute to call (plus VAT this equals 4.9p)".

Some will pay more, but otherwise it is perfectly correct, the level of cost is the only difference. The principle is the same, callers are paying money to the person called. The caller paying the provider for a service delivered by telephone may be OK for "sexual entertainment" services, but it is not for NHS services.

There are many other issues with NGNs and there may be other issues with Surgery Line, such as reliability, but this particular case is "typical" in that it fails to raise the most important point.

Thanks are due to jimnutt and sherbert for bringing this to our attention, I intend no criticism.

David

Back to top

@fairtelecoms (tweets)

IP Logged

sherbert

Supreme Member

Offline

Posts: 2,011
Gender: male

Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #250 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 9:43am

[quote author=SilentCallsVictim link=1160182005/240#250 date=1187947937][quote author=sherbert link=1160182005/240#247 date=1187940548]Read this, typical...

http://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/Health-phone-system-chaos.3134861.jp
[/quote]

"Typical" in that it attacks the system for being simply "new" and "controversial" without pointing out what is truly wrong about it, other than it being likely to fail, as with any new technology.

The true issue is this NHS GP using a revenue-sharing NGN to fund delivery of its services by collecting money from patients as they use them.

The explanation in the pdf file linked to at [url]http://www.parksurgery.com/[/url] points out the difference between "0844 numbers" and "0870 or premium rate numbers" simply in terms of the lesser cost - "0844 numbers cost just over 4p per minute to call (plus VAT this equals 4.9p)".

Some will pay more, but otherwise it is perfectly correct, the level of cost is the only difference. The principle is the same, callers are paying money to the person called. The caller paying the provider for a service delivered by telephone may be OK for "sexual entertainment" services, but it is not for NHS services.

There are many other issues with NGNs and there may be other issues with Surgery Line, such as reliability, but this particular case is "typical" in that it fails to raise the most important point.

Thanks are due to jimnutt and sherbert for bringing this to our attention, I intend no criticism.

David
[/quote]

I also believe that some families put a bar on 08 numbers to stop these numbers being used by members of the family to keep down telephone costs. To un block you have to put a fairly long pin number in and then dial. So what I am saying is that this could cause all manner of problems when someone wants tthe doctor quickly..

Back to top

IP Logged

NGMsGhost

Supreme Member

Offline

The Forum Ghost of NonGeographicalMan<b
r />

Posts: 2,720
Surrey, United Kingdom
Gender: male

Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #251 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 9:48am

[quote author=sherbert link=1160182005/240#251 date=1187948636]I also believe that some families put a bar on 08 numbers to stop these numbers being used by members of the family to keep down telephone costs. To un block you have to put a fairly long pin number in and then dial. So what I am saying is that this could cause all manner of problems when someone wants tthe doctor quickly..
[/quote]
I am not aware of a call barring facility currently existing for 08 number ranges as Ofcom does not define them as premium rate (despite what the dictionary says) and also any bar on 08 numbers would catch Freephone numbers too.

However it is undoubtedly true that many overseas telecoms carriers will not carry calls at all to either the 0844 numbers normally used by NEG Surgeryline practices or to the even more expensive 0870 numbers that scumbag liars NEG then try to offer as the replacement number for calling from overseas.

Back to top

<div style=

IP Logged

sherbert

Supreme Member

Offline

Posts: 2,011
Gender: male

Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #252 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 9:59am

[quote author=NGMsGhost link=1160182005/240#252 date=1187948914][quote author=sherbert link=1160182005/240#251 date=1187948636]I also believe that some families put a bar on 08 numbers to stop these numbers being used by members of the family to keep down telephone costs. To un block you have to put a fairly long pin number in and then dial. So what I am saying is that this could cause all manner of problems when someone wants tthe doctor quickly..
[/quote]
I am not aware of a call barring facility currently existing for 08 number ranges as Ofcom does not define them as premium rate (despite what the dictionary says) and also any bar on 08 numbers would catch Freephone numbers too.

However it is undoubtedly true that many overseas telecoms carriers will not carry calls at all to either the 0844 numbers normally used by NEG Surgeryline practices or to the even more expensive 0870 numbers that scumbag liars NEG then try to offer as the replacement number for calling from overseas.[/quote]

According to the story in today's West Sussex County Times there is this facility. Anyone who can get this paper this item is on the front page column two

Back to top

IP Logged

NGMsGhost

Supreme Member

Offline

The Forum Ghost of NonGeographicalMan<b
r />

Posts: 2,720
Surrey, United Kingdom
Gender: male

Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #253 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 10:12am

[quote author=sherbert link=1160182005/240#253 date=1187949541]According to the story in today's West Sussex County Times there is this facility. Anyone who can get this paper this item is on the front page column two[/quote]

Only goes to show the pathetic lack of understanding of most journalists of telecoms issues.

I will make sure to write a letter to the paper guiding people to this website and to the 10DowningStreet petition.

Back to top

<div style=

IP Logged

lompos

Supreme Member

Offline

Posts: 791

Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #254 - Aug 24^th, 2007 at 10:17am

Quote:

However it is undoubtedly true that many overseas telecoms carriers will not carry calls at all to either the 0844 numbers normally used by NEG Surgeryline practices or to the even more expensive 0870 numbers ....

how definitive is this statement?

I thought 0870 number can be connected from overseas. If there are any exceptions it would be good to know what they are.

Back to top

IP Logged