Reader comments on this story in the Hull Daily Mail are flowing in : -----



The link to the Petition against doctors using 0844 is :-----http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/NGN-use-by-GPs/ SIGN IT NOW to get this scam stopped!!!!
Michael, Reading




The Government is fully aware of this disgrace. 27 MPs recently signed a motion in Parliament condemning doctors who use 0844 numbers. If YOU want to stop this then sign the Petition on the Prime Minister's website, see the link below: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/NGN-use-by-GPs/ The Department of Health issued instructions to all PCTs in 2006 saying that these numbers are NOT to be used. All doctors and their PCTs using 0844 are contravening a clear directive. They should be disciplined and forced to cancel their contract with NEG, the unscrupulous phone company selling this scam. NEG claims that doctors are not making money out of this scheme are false. The doctors get their phone system completely free and other financial benefits. Therefore doctors ARE profiting. 
Michael , Reading




How can a PCT justify having patients who are in need of emergency treatment or visit having to listen to a load of options from this type of phone call. Any frustrated patient would call 999 instead putting further stress on the emergency services. Since PCTs took over local health care services seem to have suffered. Healthcare is being determined by accountants and pen pushers being paid salaries higher than they deserve. Before PCTs the healthcare in this area was good. Stop messing about with the NHS with reorganastion after another
Cath, Walkington




What on earth is happening to healthcare in this country? It used to be a system you could trust. Now it takes you an age to get through to GPs surgeries, costs you extra to phone them, you have to get past the dreaded receptionists, who often give misguided and ill informed advice to you. If you do have to go to a hospital for any period of time the worry is that you could come out with MRSA. We have gone from a system that was the envy of the world to one you would expect in a third world country.
geoff, hull




Madness. What is next ?? you will be speaking to elvis with an indian accent in southern india as this will be cheaper for the nhs ?
Gilbert, Hessle Road




Look on the PCT website. The non proffessional element of the board are all failed Labour councillors, so they will be in auto pilot of tax us more and deliver us less
Ste, West Hull




There is absolutely no place for this type of call system in a medical surgery. People call their surgery sometimes in great distress, elderly or informa and the last thing they want is to be passed from one line to another, pressing this button and that. If I need an urgent appointment at my surgery the only way I can guarantee one is to queue outside the doors first thing in a morning, make the appointment and then return later in the day. I am unable to ring from work as the line is more often than not engaged or you are placed in a queue and you don't know how long you will be there for. Then, when you do get through, often all the appointments are taken and you are told to ring again the next day. Just another way of building favourable statistics - if you don't get through or give up, you don't become a statistic do you? Maybe it does save the medical staff's time but what about the rest of us - some of us have to work too. It's just another step in the wrong direction!!
Swany, Cottingham




I've never read such drivel as this article! Don't GP's earn too much for doing too little as it is? Or is it purely due to the greed of their 'Practice Managers'? "A spokesman said the practice was not making a profit out of patients"....of course they're not....I suppose the moon's made from cheese too!
Bill., Paull

Golf_Paul wrote on Aug 28^th, 2007 at 2:10pm:
Thanks for picking this up and presenting it here.

Quote:
Well done to the journalist for pointing this out.

---

Some (slightly picky) points of correction:

Quote:

WRONG - NHS organisations have a duty to ensure they provide the best possible service to patients without CHARGING them.
(We do not want to get drawn into discussing whether any particular charge for NHS services is fair.)



Quote:

WRONG - Individual practices can choose their phone system and their telephone number -
they CANNOT DECIDE to CHARGE PATIENTS for NHS services by using a revenue sharing number.



Quote:

BEWARE - Because of the historic anomaly in Hull, there is still a distinction between local and national calls for those who remain with the proud local former monopoly-holding telecomms provider.

---

Golf_Paul wrote on Aug 28^th, 2007 at 2:10pm:

It is! It will!

I have not received any update emails for several of the recent posts in this thread, even though the Notification part of my site membership still says I am subscribed to it.

I also have not received any recent update emails from other SayNoTo0870 threads to which I am subscribed.

What exactly is going on?

jgxenite wrote on Aug 29^th, 2007 at 4:50pm:


It seems Plusnet have been having teething problems with their new spam filtering service Critical Path.  These caused waiting emails to be deleted off their server and then being totally incompetent Plusnet had failed to keep any backups.

This is todays article in the Birmingham Mail : ----

Anger at GP call charges   Aug 29 2007

 By Jonathan Walker, Birmingham Mail
 
A BIRMINGHAM Labour MP has condemned doctors who encourage patients to ring high-cost phone lines to make appointments.

The GP surgeries advertise expensive 0844 numbers for patients to call.

Birmingham Edgbaston MP Gisela Stuart said it means patients are charged 5p a minute from a landline, compared to 1p a minute for an ordinary local call in off-peak times.

Some of the extra cost is received by GPs, or by telephone companies which supply them with services in return for the money.

At least six practices in Birmingham and the Black Country are listed with 0844 numbers on Yell, the Internet version of Yellow Pages.


Ms Stuart said she was demanding answers after concerns were raised by a constituent. She said: "I think this is really wrong. GPs surgeries are already paid for the work they do. On top of that, to have a system where they benefit from people ringing in to make appointments is just unacceptable."


Not only does an 0844 number costs more than a local number, but it is also unlikely to be included in call plans allowing telephone customers to make free local calls at evenings or weekends. The calls can cost 40p minute from mobile telephones.


GPs are banned from offering services on premium rate numbers, but 0844 lines are not included because they costs less than 10p a minute to call.


However, they are "revenue sharing" numbers, which means a portion of the extra cost is received by the surgery.


West Midland practices using 0844 numbers include Fairway Surgery in Stechford; Karis Medical Centre in Edgbaston; Netherton Health Centre in Dudley; Bath Street Medical Centre in Dudley; The Ridgeway Surgery in Dudley and Luqman Medical Centre in Walsall.


The Department of Health revealed it was so worried about the trend towards using expensive numbers that it wrote to Primary Care Trusts in December.


But Birmingham East and North PCT, which is responsible for GP services including the Fairway Surgery in Stechford, said there were no rules to prevent surgeries using 0844 numbers.


A spokeswoman said: "There is no restriction for telephone numbers starting 0844. "


No-one was available for comment from either the Fairway Surgery or the Karis Medical Centre.

NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 29^th, 2007 at 10:12pm:

The extended version of this piece in the Birmingham Post shows that he and a total of 3 MPs now seem to understand the issue very well.

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/birminghampost/news/tm_headline=gp-surgery-p...


Understanding seems to have advanced in Worcestershire also -

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/display.var.1645509.0.foster_to_lobby_government_...


Let us hope that this understanding is perhaps spreading.



NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 29^th, 2007 at 10:12pm:

Can we please stick to discussing external issues rather than the personal merits of those who post here. This is a public forum viewed by those whom we seek to influence, as well as those who may wish to undermine our efforts.


NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 29^th, 2007 at 10:12pm:


I believe that it is only the use of revenue-sharing numbers when providing NHS services that is “illegal” because the GP contract does not allow fees to be levied on patients. I am confident that PCTs will catch on to this very soon now.

As for other NGNs, and revenue-sharing where the renter of the line is not prohibited from taking money from those who call, I do not believe that there are any specific statutory powers to be invoked across the public sector. We rely on the general powers of Ministers to direct the activities of their departments and departmental agencies and the powers of all public bodies to determine the terms of contracts for those who undertake work for them.

There are however ways in which public sector activites are coordinated and these must be a focus for campaigning effort. The no 10 petition is an excellent example of this.

I do not believe that Ofcom has any specific powers that could be invoked to affect the topic under discussion in this thread within any relevant timescale. There are however broader issues about Ofcom for discussion elsewhere. These may come back "on topic" once 0844 ceases to be an option for users of Surgery Line. I believe that this will be very soon now.

David

The article in the WORCESTER NEWS together with some of the public comments deserve to be recorded here for posterity and future reference purposes : ----

     Foster to lobby Government over GP premium rate numbers
     By James Connell

     WORCESTER MP Mike Foster is lobbying Government health chiefs to put a stop to premium rate calls to doctors.

      Mr Foster has written to the Health Secretary, Alan Johnson, asking him to ban outright expensive 0844 telephone lines to GPs.

The numbers are used by 11 GP surgeries across Worcestershire, including St John's House Surgery in Worcester, Ombersley Medical Centre in Ombersley, Grey Gable Surgery in Inkberrow and Pershore Medical Centre in Pershore.

Some 0844 numbers can cost 40p a minute from a mobile and up to 4p a minute more than ordinary landline numbers.

Watchdog Ofcom is against the use of numbers and Paul Bates, chief executive of the Primary Care Trust, has already condemned their use but said the PCT had no power to ban them.

Surgeries using the numbers are now subject to a PCT investigation which aims to discourage practices from adopting the numbers and to drop them if they already use them.

Mr Foster is now taking the fight to the top to get ministers to back a blanket ban on all such phone lines within the NHS.

Mr Foster said:"There is real unease about GP practices earning money from patients in this way. GPs earn their money from the delivery of services to patients."

He hopes to get a reply to his letter within four weeks.

Mr Foster added: "I want to see him state that the NHS continues to be free at the point of use, and that includes banning premium rate or revenue sharing phone calls to your GP. The local PCT have reacted quickly and well, but it is clear there is a national perspective to this as well. We need to stop the use of such revenue sharing phone calls across the NHS wherever it is taking place."

Mr Foster also wants practices to declare how much cash they get from the calls.

The Department of Health banned 087, 090 and 901 numbers but 0844 numbers were considered local rate and were not banned.

12:09pm Monday 27th August 2007

And some of the comments posted on the Worcester News website : ---

Posted by: Jim Evans on 3:55pm Mon 27 Aug 07
Well done Mike Foster! Let`s hope Gordon Brown returns to his Labour roots and starts driving the money lenders out of our temple. You will forgive us if we don`t hold our breath,though!
Well done Mike Foster!

Let`s hope Gordon Brown returns to his Labour roots and starts driving the money lenders out of our temple.

You will forgive us if we don`t hold our breath,though!Quote |

Posted by: finnil, Worcester on 11:55pm Tue 28 Aug 07
And guess what number you ring to contact The Labour Party...a national rate 087 number (08705 900 200), which is banned by the Dept of Health ! (Admittedly, Mike Foster does publish a local 01905 number).
And guess what number you ring to contact The Labour Party...a national rate 087 number (08705 900 200), which is banned by the Dept of Health !
(Admittedly, Mike Foster does publish a local 01905 number).

Posted by: NHS Patient, Midlands on 12:15am today
We are making progress. See how Mr Foster has changed his position from that of 22 August when he said "the Government had no power to stop GPs using expensive lines". People are slowly begining to understand what is going on. Let us hope that the PCT inquiry will have a similar positive outcome.
We are making progress. See how Mr Foster has changed his position from that of 22 August when he said "the Government had no power to stop GPs using expensive lines". People are slowly begining to understand what is going on. Let us hope that the PCT inquiry will have a similar positive outcome.

simond001 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2007 at 7:46am:


Simond001, could you please explain why all these things cannot be done, when using the telephone swithboard and associated equipment which you supply, together with a geographic number???