idb wrote on May 30^th, 2008 at 12:12pm:


http://www.leedslmc.org/VP0805.pdf

LMC ViewPoint

The Newsletter of Leeds Local Medical Committee May 2008

0844 NUMBERS

There is currently much debate and speculation surrounding the use of 08 numbers in general
practice, and in particular 0844 numbers. A number of practices in Leeds use 0844 numbers and
have seen an improvement in telephone access as a result, with fewer patients having to wait long
periods waiting for a call to be answered. Leeds LMC met with NEG, the company that supplies this
service to a number of practices in Leeds and invited them to answer some common questions to try
and set the record straight.

Question: Does the use of 0844 numbers by GPs follow government guidelines?

Answer: Yes

Fact: In June 2007 the Secretary of State for Health confirmed that the use of 0844 and
0845 numbers is sanctioned by government policy. Presently, there is currently a
review on the use on 08 numbers (inc NHS Direct’s 0845) and the DH is working in
conjunction with NEG. This review has taken place since Christmas and a statement is
due out within the next few weeks. It is highly unlikely that 0844/45 use will be
banned, it is possible that guidelines will be issued to those who do have a 0844/45
number in place (ie that the number must be advertised in the practice leaflet, website
etc. (Ref Hansard . 19 Jun 2007 : Column 1638W NHS: Non-Geographic Numbers)

Question: Will I be expected to change my number to 03?

Answer: 03 numbers are not yet in full circulation. The receiving party, ie the practice, has to
pay to receive calls (ie practice will pay approx 1.5-2ppm for each call it receives).
These facts were not realised last year when they were initially suggested by the DH
and NEG regards this as an unrealistic options for surgeries.

Question: Why can’t NEG tell us how much the 0844 costs from a mobile?

Answer: Quite simply the cost is determined by the mobile provider and not NEG. As there are
thousands of different rates, which change all the time, there is a too higher risk of
supplying incorrect information. Also, an individual’s mobile package depends on their
own call pattern, so while a provider (e.g. Vodafone) may include 0844 numbers for
free for one patient, they may not do so for another. It is down to the individual to
negotiate the best package for them – as we all do for our gas, electricity and land
lines.

0844 and 0845 numbers (i.e. NHS Direct) are lo-call rate, not premium rate numbers.
The cost on average is the same as the current local rate cost to call the practice.
Surgery Line charges 4.2p per minute, 2p of which is returned to the practice and is
ring fenced to co fund equipment and software that specifically improves patient
access and care. The only stipulation of the Department of Health is that practices
can not make a profit from the 0844 revenue. Any excess revenue (not income), can
however, be used towards additional services, such as Jayex wallboards, Disaster
Recovery, Patient Partner (the ability for patients to book, cancel and amend appts
24/7), or Automatic Patient Check-in screens.
GP

These are the NEG liars responsible for continually churning out BS relating to this monstrous rip-off:

http://www.networkeuropegroup.com/about/management_team.html

The NEG Management Team

Leslie Jacobs MLIA (DIP). CEMAP – Non Executive Chairman

Leslie has spent in excess of 20 years advising both companies and individuals. He is qualified to advise on both investment and borrowing. His nature as a planner has assisted many companies to achieve their potential. Leslie Jacobs assisted the management buy out that took place in October 2004 and looks forward to assisting the company in achieving their future goals. He is currently the Managing Director of an Insurance Brokerage, Director of a Mortgage Brokerage and a fully qualified Financial Advisor and Pension specialist. He says "Everyone can get anything that they want in life as long as they make a logical plan first"


Dean Rayment – Managing Director

Dean is one of NEG ’s longest serving employees who joined the company in 1993 leaving 3 years later to co-fund Mediacom Global Communications Ltd. In a twist of fate NEG acquired Mediacom during an acquisition programme in 1999 and Dean rejoined NEG as part of earn-out arrangement and decided to stay. In the summer of 2002 Dean was appointed to the board accepting the position of Customer Accounts Director responsible for the management of the existing client base and internal marketing. In October 2004 after an MBO (Management Buy Out) Dean was appointed to Managing Director of NEG . Dean lives in Essex with his wife Rosie and is a keen sportsman enjoying golf, skiing and most water sports.

deanr@networkeuropegroup.com

Craig Hughes – Engineering Director

Craig Hughes joined NEG after 14 years in the Royal Air Force as a Telecommunication Engineer. He subsequently gained extensive experience in data, satellite and voice communications. He left the RAF finishing at the rank of Non Commissioned Officer after completing a tour at the Defence Crisis Management Centre in Whitehall. Craig joined NEG As the Nortel Product Manager, with his wealth of experience he was soon promoted to Engineering Manager. In 2003 Craig was rewarded for all his hard work with promotion to the position of Group General Manger. In October 2004 as part of the Management Team Craig became Engineering Director of NEG after an internal Management By Out. Craig has settled down in Essex and is a very keen sportsman and continues to participate in his love for the sport of rugby.

craigh@networkeuropegroup.com

Scott Russell – Non-Executive Director

In 1992 Scott Russell founded Network Europe Telecommunications ltd growing the company organically and through strategic acquisitions to become one of Europe’s premier suppliers of business telephone systems. In the Autumn 2004 Scott stepped down as Managing Director of NEG after successfully spearheaded the sale of the highly profitable Network division to Cable & Wireless’s largest international business partner, then orchestrating a consolidation and Management buyout of the remaining group companies. Scott is now a respected industry consultant regularly contributing to several leading telecommunication publications and has appeared on both television and radio. He lives in rural Suffolk with his wife and two boys, is a keen sportsman and private pilot, and strongly believes "if you look after your customers, they'll look after you"

http://www.gloslmc.com/newsletters/previousyears/Sept%2007%20Newsletter.pdf

GLOUCESTERSHIRE LOCAL MEDICAL COMMITTEE
SEPTEMBER 2007 Edition

USE OF 0844 NUMBERS

A dozen of the 83 practices in Gloucestershire
have gone over to 0844 numbers. Basically
every practice has to run efficiently and
legally, and has to make its own decisions to
do so. However, there is a nationally
orchestrated campaign to outlaw the use of
such numbers by GPs. There is a petition to
the Prime Minister, which can be viewed via
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/NGN-use-by-GPs/
which is gathering about 300 signatures a day
and is due to complete on 15 Feb 08. In July
07 27 MPs (including the MP for Cheltenham)
signed an Early Day Motion condemning GP’s
use of non-geographical numbers. The
essence of the objection is that patients
ringing these practices are paying more than
those who ring GPs with a geographical
number, that some of the extra goes back to
the practice and, since the phone call may
involve consultation, it could be said that the
patient is indirectly paying for treatment,
which is contrary to the GMS contract. It
matters not to the activists that the amount
of extra paid is usually minimal. They do not
take account of the fact that, although it costs
more to ring an 0844 number from a mobile
(typically 12p a minute against 5p a minute
from a land-line) the GP practice phone bills
are also going up all the time as more and
more patients prefer to be called on mobile
phones. Can the GP refuse to call them? No.
Your Secretary went in to bat on BBC Radio
Glos breakfast radio on Tuesday 11 Sep.
There was an article in the Citizen on 12 Sep
which was even-handed. Since then things
have gone quiet, but it may rear its head
again. A briefing note is attached.

0844 ‘LO CALL’ RATE NUMBERS

There have been some concerns expressed on the radio about GP Practices that use 0844
numbers. 11 GP practices in Gloucestershire PCT area have chosen to use advanced telephone
systems in their practices, with 0844 numbers. The phone company pays the practice 1.2p a
minute for incoming calls, to a maximum that equals the rent received, so they can never make a
profit out of it. Doctors want to run efficient practices that do the best for their patients.

Advantages of the system are:

• Patient satisfaction – many complain in surveys that they don’t like hanging on waiting
for the phone to be answered or being caught in a traditional phone queuing system. You
are through at once to the 0844 system and can get to the top of the queue if you have a
medical emergency. From what we hear, patients prefer this and are prepared to pay for it.

• Quick routing to the right person – saves receptionist (and therefore the patient’s phone
bill) about 90 seconds.

• Renting the phone system on which the number is used allows the practice to spend the
thousands of pounds that a new system costs on improved patient care and equipment
instead.

Significant points:

• NO PROFIT. GPs are debarred by their contract with the phone equipment supplier from
making a profit. The proportion of the call fee received by the phone company that is paid
back to the practice cannot exceed the rent that the practice pays the company for use of
the system.

• ACTUAL INCREASES IN COST GENERALLY SMALL The cost per minute is greater to the
person making the call, but:

o Increased cost is offset by the speed of call. But even supposing the calls were
the same length, from a landline the cost per minute (VAT inc) is 4.9ppm as against
the (VAT inc) BT landline call 6.49ppm for the first minute and 3.95ppm thereafter.
On 3 minutes the call costs 15p on 0844 and 14.5p on 01~ numbers. The average
length of a call is 147 seconds.

o Mobile networks guilty. There are cases of higher charges. (e.g. some old age
pensioners who only have pay as you go mobile phones. For them the cost is about
35p a minute, but they have the choice of whether to go PAYG or contract.) On
contract you can usually get 0844/5 numbers onto ‘favourites’ etc thereby avoiding
those costs. The increased cost charged by mobile networks for phoning 0844
numbers benefits only the mobile networks.

• EFFICIENCY Government insists that GPs must run an efficient business, and this is one
strand in making it so.

• Why pillory GPs? Many large organisations in Gloucestershire (POLICE, NHS DIRECT,
BRITISH GAS, GLOUCESTERSHIRE PCT, LIBRARY) use 0844 and 0845 numbers. (Some like
the RSPCA use the much more expensive 0870 numbers)

Summary. GPs make no profits from the system and use it to produce a more efficient service for
patients, which they approve of.

http://www.cambridgeshirepct.nhs.uk/documents/Publications/GP%20Bulletin/03_June...

GP Practice bulletin

0844 Telephone Numbers ...

Following several queries, here is some background information about 0844 telephone numbers. Practices
should be aware there is increasing local and national interest in this issue from patients and the public

Key Message:

There is currently no reason why practices cannot use 0844 numbers but this may be about to change


In 2005 DoH announced a ban on expensive telephone numbers that charge patients over the odds to call
NHS services in their area. Since that time, the only special service numbers the NHS has been able to
use are freephone numbers or those that offer patients a guaranteed low rate call, such as 0845 or 0844
numbers. NHS Direct and many of the local County Council services are provided via an 0845 number


Also in 2005, the DoH announced plans to review the use of non-geographical numbers in practices,
including whether such numbers should be used at all. It suggested practices bear this in mind if
considering a move to non-geographical numbers such as 0844


The review was to follow an Ofcom www.ofcom.org.uk consultation on proposals to change the regulatory
regime that supports Number Translation Services, including the 0844 number range.


The review has not yet happened but the DoH has confirmed it still plans to undertake it


Actions following the Ofcom consultation, do not include changes for 0844 numbers at present but
complaints and other indicators will be monitored to see if consumer concerns arise


Ofcom indicated that, at present, it is inappropriate for public bodies to use 0844 numbers exclusively (i.e.
without at a minimum giving equal prominence to a geographic alternative) when dealing with people on
low incomes or other vulnerable groups


It is also consulting on a proposal to provide a new 03 number range for those wanting to use a nongeographic
number but not requiring a revenue share. It believes this range, on which revenue sharing
would be banned, would be well suited to the requirements of public bodies currently using 0844 numbers.


In 2006 the DoH advised PCTs about the 03 number range charged to the consumer at the same rate as a
geographical number, which could be included in any inclusive or low-cost packages offered by landline or
mobile phone companies.


It drew the PCTs attention to the Central Office of Information (COI) guidance www.coi.gov.uk and asked
that PCTs ensure practices consider carefully the best option for their patients who should not have to pay
over the odds to contact their local services. The guidance states that 0844 is still an appropriate tariff but
can be charged at up to 5p per minute which may be seen as a barrier to some individuals. It notes that
revenue share on 0844 is possible but should be avoided by public sector bodies to avoid criticism


It advised individual practices should decide their patient’s best interests but suggested this will normally
be the lowest call cost i.e. geographic or 03 numbers. Practices might like to look at the various sources of
patient feedback to establish levels of satisfaction with telephone access


Although the list of eligible public bodies on the Ofcom website does not appear to include GP practices,
Ofcom have verbally confirmed that practices are eligible to use the 03 number range


The most recent DoH communication to PCT chief executives can be found on the DoH website
www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Lettersandcirculars/Dearcolleaguelett...

SilentCallsVictim wrote on May 31^st, 2008 at 3:23am:
Indeed, and nothing wrong with representing GPs' interests.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on May 31^st, 2008 at 3:23am:
The source for such falsehoods is, presumably, NEG and its Joseph Goebbels-esque propaganda machine.

I have sent the following email to the 2 relevant ministers.


Alan/Ivan,

I have been involved in the campaign against the misuse of 08xx numbers
since the use of an 0870 helpline number after the London bombings in
2005.

I have no financial interest whatsoever but I am concerned by any sort of
exploitation especially of the vulnerable in society.

I should also like to declare I have no objection whatsoever in the use of
proper premium rate numbers (09) provided they are used in the
appropriate context.

I understand that the Department of Health is currently carrying out a
review of the use of 0844 numbers by GPs.

I could provide a detailed argument here as to why I object to the use of
these numbers by GPs and will do so if you wish me to do so.

However instead can I recommend that you and your colleagues access
the web site www.saynoto0870.com and take part in the debate there to
obtain evidence.

There are a number of very knowledgeable people on this topic who
debate there. They obviously tend to be of like minds but none have a
financial interest unlike the those arguing from the opposite view point.

Can I also emphasis that any evidence you are given is tested. We have
certainly become aware of some very significant misrepresentations of
the facts in particular with respect to call pricing (eg excluding vat or
connection charges when comparing prices), the misuse of the term local
rate and claims of 0844 numbers being included in call packages when
they are not.

My greatest concern is for the poorer members of society who use PAYG
mobiles or payphones who pay very high rates for calling 0844 number
and are now left in a queue rather than getting an engaged tone so build
up bills of several pounds for each call. I also have grave concerns about
getting in contact with your GP when abroad which is now impossible with
0844 numbers and if an alternative is provided it is usually an 0870
number or fax number, both of which are useless if you are phoning from
your mobile while away, which is the most likely scenario.

In case you are also not aware can I also draw your attention to
www.pulsetoday.co.uk where NEG have pre-empted your review. Quote:

"The Department of Health is set to back down from banning the use of
0844 numbers in GP practices, the country's biggest supplier has
claimed.
 
....NEG Surgery Line, a national provider of telephone systems and a
major contributor to the Department’s review, told Pulse it was ‘highly
unlikely’ 0844 numbers would be banned. "

I look forward to hearing from you and hope you participate in the debate
on www.saynoto0870.com

Regards Keith

Let's not be too cynical

A further specialist media piece is found in E-Health Insider Primary Care - DH 'highly unlikely' to ban 084 numbers

Members may wish to follow the link to read the full article, including the quoted comments of a campaigner; however the topic of this thread is “NEG propaganda”.

Quote:

I have two points to make.

Firstly, there is none of the familiar attempt to claim that patients do not incur additional cost to access Surgery Line using 0844 numbers. That is how Surgery Line is presently funded. If that point has now been ceded, then progress is being made. The next step is an admission that Surgery Line would work equally well on 03xx (or perhaps even geographic) numbers.

Secondly, there is a valid political argument that patients should contribute towards the cost of NHS services as they use them, so long as these charges are clearly declared. I passionately disagree, and suspect that the GP partners in most of the 1300 practices, and many of their patients, would also subscribe to the principle of “free at the point of need”. I have never argued that Surgery Line does not provide benefits to patients and practices. It could continue to do so, if a proper way of funding it could be found.

I believe that as an interested supplier to the NHS, NEG should keep out of the politics of how it is funded. So long as NEG receives fair remuneration for what it provides, it should be content. NEG, and its partner Opal Telecom (part of the Carphone Warehouse Group), should currently be focussing their efforts on how this valued system may be funded properly for both new and existing customers. The Department of Health and GPs should also be engaged on this point.

The same applies to all other NHS services currently provided on 084x numbers.