Pretty much the same responses at a Surgery in Abingdon. When I contacted the practice manager I made the following points:

"I refer you to a recent government response to a petition concerning
the use of 0844 and 0845 (non geographic - NG) numbers by general
medical practitioners and out of hours services.

http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page15215.asp

It clearly states that ".. the message from the Department of Health
has made it very clear to NHS organisations that patients should not
be expected to pay more than the equivalent of a local call to
contact their GPs. "

The cost of an 0844/5 call can be up to 5.9p (inc VAT) per minute,
whist the cost of a 01235 call is 0p at all times on my current
BT plan. Even on the cheapest BT plan your patients would only be
paying 4.8p per minute during the day, 1.8p evenings and free at
weekends for a local call. I can see absolutely no advantage to your
patients in changing to these numbers. There does not appear to be
any services offered for 0844/5 that cannot be applied to 01235.

I therefore respectfully request that you provide alternative
geographic numbers for all your services. If it is not within your
power to do this, please forward this to the appropriate authority,
pointing out that they are not in compliance with government
directives."

His response was:

"Thank you for sending me this information and I think the relevant wording is "Local Call" it does not make reference to personal plans with telephone providers. [NEG weasel words]
Please see below the information that we were provided with and is still I believe relevant:

0844numbers are like the 0845 number for NHS direct they are lo call rate numbers and used for the NHS.  Today when a patient calls the surgery the call costs 5p per min with BT.  The 0844 rate is the same at 5p per min."

Having done a bit more research on the NEG web site, I then pointed out:

"You failed to mention the following piece of information from Network
Europe Group's web site.

"With your own 084 number, you keep about 2p from every call."

So now you are making a profit from all the patients who phone the
practice.

Under the old system I'd call and pay nothing however long it took to
process my call, now it costs me 5.9p (set up charge) plus 5.9p per
minute and you get a kick back. How is this an improvement?"

He didn't like this:

"We receive no income from phone calls at all, to do so would be in total
contravention of our contract. I understand from Dr XXX that this
type of "propaganda" is appearing in the national papers [no it's on NEG own web site!] and whilst it
is true that the scheme offers a discount this is in fact not received
by the surgery but is used to improve patient services within the
surgery and is managed by NEG.  We continue to pay the full cost of our
telephone rental and calls.

We made the change as it was necessary to move to a digital system from
the old analogue system that was offered by BT to improve our telephone
response time that had been highlighted as a problem in our patient
survey.  We have had this system in place now for some 18 months and
from our last survey it would appear that the service has improved and
therefore from this point of view the system has proven to be
beneficial.

I am sorry that this has incurred additional costs to you when you phone
the surgery but I hope the number of calls you need to make to the
surgery will be low.

Looking at it from the surgery point of view, we are required to phone
back numerous patients on mobile phones which has indeed rocketed our
telephone costs, I regret that modern technology is at a cost. [so why not go back to the older system?]

I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily."

Well... no.

Recently in the surgery waiting room several of the patients were complaining of long waits on hold which ran up their bills.

So under the old system you rang up, got the engaged signal (no charge for this), hung up and tried again a few minutes later.
If you like you could always spend a few pence and use the automatic ringback option.

Now you phone up, get charged from the word go and are left waiting and paying for up to 15 minutes - this is better for the patients??

pjaj wrote on Jul 25^th, 2008 at 7:44pm:

Well done pjaj.

It's when I see the sort of nonsense which I have highlighted that I feel that these sorts of people should live by the rules they impose on others. No pun intended; they should be subject to a taste of their own medicine.

A free market in telecommunications services means that one's "local rate", that is the price of a "local call", is different from provider to provider and tariff to tariff.

This person believes that this should not apply and that the surgery should define a "local call" for all at 5 pence per minute. Local calls have never been as high as 5 pence per minute from a landline, so clearly he thinks it's only right that the cost should rise rather than fall.

With this in mind, perhaps the surgery should be forced to accept electricity from a provider at above market price in return for "free" replacement lightbulbs. The only thing being that the amount above which it would normally expect to pay is way above that of the bulbs.

This tariff would then be titled "Lo-Lectric" which is of course entirely acceptable because we know that there is nothing wrong in calling something by a name that makes it sound far better than it really is.

http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/news/NHS-helpline-numbers-could-change.4312213...

NHS helpline numbers could change

<<
TELEPHONE numbers for finding an NHS dentist or accessing patient advice may be changed to cheaper rates, East Sussex Downs and Weald Primary Care Trust has said.

The numbers for the trust's dentistry helpline and its Patient Advice and Liaison Service (PALS) are both non-geographic 0844 numbers.

While charged at a local rate of 5p a minute on a BT landline, calls to these numbers are excluded from popular BT packages providing free evening and weekend calls.

The 0844 numbers are charged at a fixed rate of 35p a minute from Orange and Vodafone pay as you go mobile phones, where a local 01323 code would cost callers 10p to 30p a minute with Vodafone or 20p with Orange.

Yet patients from neighbouring West Sussex PCT are given a cheaper local number to call for each service.

East Sussex PCT is considering changing some of its numbers, including the dentist helpline, to start with 03, which regulator Ofcom says cost the same or less as local numbers from a mobile, landline or payphone and are included in discount packages.

In the meantime, the trust says patients can contact them by letter or email or ask the PALS team to call them back while requesting advice.
The PALS team, based at Lewes, covers the whole of East Sussex.

A trust spokesman said, "We felt it was much better to give people one telephone number for PALS, with calls charged at a normal fixed local rate, to make the service as easy to access as possible.

"In addition, a single phone number enables the PALS team to better manage the calls they handle so they can provide a better overall service.

"We appreciate that some, including those calling from mobiles or those with certain telephone call plans, will be charged more than the fixed local rate. However, we feel the benefits of the new single telephone number far outweigh any drawbacks."

The trust said it made no profit from the 0844 numbers and said patients would also be able to use NHS Direct on 0845 4647 or its helpline on 01273 403546 to search for a dentist.
>>

Source: Telegraph & Argus

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/3592668.Surgery_is_now_ready_to_open/

Surgery is now ready to open

6:23pm Wednesday 13th August 2008
By Claire Lomax »

<<
A purpose-built GP surgery in the heart of a multi-million pounddevelopment is almost ready to open.

The branch surgery of Saltaire Medical Practice is a key part of the £4.5 million Cottingley Cornerstone Centre in Littlelands and will open on Tuesday, August 26, replacing the surgery in Hope Hill.

The new two-storey building has been funded by the Cottingley Cornerstone Centre and developed by Bramley Homes.

Benefits for the surgery’s 2,000 patients include a larger waiting area, a separate reception and an on-site car park. Other benefits include better facilities for the storage and disposal of clinical waste.

Catherine Darlington, business manager of Saltaire Medical Practice and the branch surgery at Cottingley, said: “Our opening times and services will remain the same in the short-term. However, we look forward to developing our services in the new premises over the next months for the benefit of our patients.

“We will be delighted to welcome patients to look round our wonderful brand new premises which will provide a much better environment for everyone. During the move we have tried to ensure there has been the minimum disruption to patients.”

John Chuter, chairman of Bradford and Airedale Teaching Primary Care Trust, pictured above, said: “This new surgery is a wonderful example of partnership working resulting in a modern surgery.”

The surgery will be closed on the afternoon of Thursday, August 21, and all day Friday, August 22, to allow staff to move in. Any patient needing an appointment during this time will be redirected to the Saltaire surgery.

Patients and members of the community are invited to an open afternoon on Thursday, September 4, from noon onwards so staff can show them the new facilities. The new number for the surgery will be 0844 477 3674.
>>

It seems that the worm is finally beginning to turn on doctors misuse of 0844 numbers down in West Sussex and that local Labour MP Laura Moffatt is a new recruit to the ranks of MPs known to be vigorous opponents of the doctors surgery 0844 ripoff.  Heaven only knows though when my own MP, Sir Paul Beresford, is ever going to wake up to the issue.  To be fair I am not aware of any doctors surgeries in Mole Valley using an 0844 number but surely by now there must be one somewhere.

It seems that West Sussex PCT are also taking a much more robust and pro patient view on this issue than in many other areas.

See www.wscountytimes.co.uk/496/Crawley-doctors-told-to-axe.4427025.jp

Quote:

Source: E-Health Insider Primary Care

http://www.ehiprimarycare.com/news/4131/dh_backs_away_from_084_telephone_ban

DH backs away from 084 telephone ban

09 Sep 2008

The Department of Health has no immediate plans to ban use of 084 numbers in the NHS, health minister Ben Bradshaw has indicated.

In a letter to Rob Marris MP, the health minister gave no indication that the use of such numbers by GP practices and organisations such as NHS Direct would be prohibited.

Instead he told the MP, who has been campaigning against the use of 084 numbers by the health service, that the DH was currently analysing the information from a data collection exercise on the use of 084 numbers by the NHS.

He added: “In time we will publish guidance about how primary care trusts can ensure that patients are able to access their GPs or other NHS organisations via the best possible service, without placing additional costs on them.”

[…]
>>

Dave wrote on Sep 9^th, 2008 at 12:39pm:

The article includes a valuable comment from Rob Marris:
Quote:

Whilst campaigners may rightly comment that it has already taken too long and that action is required now, we must at the same time show the necessary degree of patience in assessing what we may have achieved. We must keep plugging away, attempting to exploit every opportunity to make progress. We cannot know when we may be successful.

Those who are interested in seeing the letter from Ben Bradshaw, and perhaps reading further comments, can find them here.