Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
SAYNOTO0870.COM

<---- Back to main website

 
Home Help Search Login Register

Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
RoboTelecom stop connecting 0870 Numbers (Read 20,323 times)
jasonfields007
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 7
Re: RoboTelecom stop connecting 0870 Numbers
Reply #15 - Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:22pm
 
.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:25pm by jasonfields007 »  
 
IP Logged
 
jasonfields007
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 7
Re: RoboTelecom stop connecting 0870 Numbers
Reply #16 - Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:24pm
 
I agree for 0870 numbers but not 0845 numbers as there is no or very very little revenue .
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
bbb_uk
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,041
Re: RoboTelecom stop connecting 0870 Numbers
Reply #17 - Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:29pm
 
jasonfields007 wrote on Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:24pm:
I agree for 0870 numbers but not 0845 numbers as there is no or very very little revenue .
That's not entirely true.

If you look at this newspaper article, the title of which says it all: "The government has been criticised for receiving £268,000 from telephone benefit hotlines with the prefix 0845"

Here take this example.  Say you have two companies in direct competition with each other and both offer same services at same prices, etc with the exception of the contact number.  One uses a 09x number costing 7p/min and the other using a 0870 also costing 7p/min.

Now despite both companies having a contact number costing 7p/min which one is likely to attract more business?  Simple, the company having the 0870 because many consumers aren't aware that they are ringing a premium rate number when they ring an NTS number.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:30pm by bbb_uk »  
 
IP Logged
 
ThisWebsiteIsAScam
Newbie
*
Offline


Or Why Did NGM Leave SayNoTo0870.com

Posts: 27
Surrey, United Kingdom
Gender: male
Re: RoboTelecom stop connecting 0870 Numbers
Reply #18 - Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:33pm
 
jasonfields007 wrote on Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:17pm:
1st of all i'm not a salesman. I'm a web developer. I'm 19 years old and run several IT and telecoms companies. I started promoting 0845 numbers after getting one for my own web design company 4 years ago. My 1st 0845 number service was called UK0845.com which became RoboTelecom when our services increased to Outbound and mobile services. I've always thought of the 0845 service as a happy service. Saving companies from paying for inbound calls and saving customers call costs when ringing from a national location. As you are aware over the last few years landline call costs have been seriously reduced, and the 0845 service has not caught up yet. The call cost does need to be reduced to come into line with normal call costs. This doesn't make 0845 numbers evil. It just is an issue that needs to be sorted out. Just remember how much it used to call to dial a national location!

I can understand your reasons for setting up this site, and for having issues with NGNs. NGN providers exist for a reason and that reason is that there is a demand for these numbers.


Jason,

Thank you for re-entering the debate although given that you are 19 years old and have alteady set up a website dedicated to selling these numbers I would still classify you as a salesman/entrepeneur in addition to being a web developer.  Clearly you set up the site as a business to make money and every time someone buys an 0845 number you make money in some way either through a cut of the calls or fees for the number or due to click thru banner ads on your website.

You mention Ofcom but they had every chance to impose a simple solution by returning both 0845 and 0870 calls to national rate in the short term and also setting up 03 non revenue share NGNs and announcing that in the fullness of time in a couple of years all 084/7 numbers would cease (allowing time for literature to be changed etc) and that people must either move to 03 with all the routing features and no revenue share or to 09 where the caller realises it is premium rate and queuing is banned and there are no call price announcements.

Ofcom in some of their own technical papers have described 084/7 as Uncontrolled Premium Rate and that is what they in fact are.  The whole reason 0845 calls can't be included in geographic packages and haven't fallen in price like 01/02 numbers is precisely because of the revenue share.  Ofcom used the pathetic excuse that it would be damaging to the business of 0845 dialup providers to make them move to 0844 or a low cost 09 number but by the time we get to Jan 2008 there will hardly be any dialup internet use left and most remaining 0845 dial up ISPs are changing to 0844 anyway.

Unfortunately Ofcom have been penetrated by far too many cronies from the telcos and so are failing in their duties under the Communications Act 2003 to protect the best interests of Citizen Consumers.

Most of the people who have 0845 numbers are charities and local authorities and government helplines which leaves it all the more shocking that they will  be left excluded from 01/02 call packages but 0870 numbers will not be excluded.  And ever since voip numbers have come in you could have been selling voip NGNs on normal local codes like the ones available at www.sipgate.co.uk with all of the call routing features of 0845 at no extra cost to the caller or the business using them.



~Amended post title - bbb_uk
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:35pm by bbb_uk »  
 
IP Logged
 
ThisWebsiteIsAScam
Newbie
*
Offline


Or Why Did NGM Leave SayNoTo0870.com

Posts: 27
Surrey, United Kingdom
Gender: male
Re: RoboTelecom stop connecting 0870 Numbers
Reply #19 - Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:41pm
 
jasonfields007 wrote on Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:24pm:
I agree for 0870 numbers but not 0845 numbers as there is no or very very little revenue .


How do you think 0844 and 0845 ISPs who don't charge a monthly subscription fee make a living then? Wink Roll Eyes

X Millions minutes at 1 or 2p per minute revenue share in the weekday daytime = a lot of dough.

My current ISP only has an 0845 Voip number with no GN equivalent and every time I need to call them about some aspect of deficiency in their service it costs me 60p or whatever instead of the 3p it would have cost me with www.1899.com if they had a GN I could call.

Over a a typical year most UK households with fixed price 01/02 plans are now paying at least another £10 per month for their 084/7 calls if not much more in the case of people who work from home or are retired.

0845 and 0870 both floursihed on the con that they are local rate/national rate when in fact they never ever were via the cheapest calling methods compared to GNs even way back in 1997 and I also see no evidence that a company like yours stopped calling them lo-call (as you still did back at the top of this thread) after BT started started widely marketing 01/02 all calls packages like BT Options 2 and 3 that excluded 0845 calls from them. Cry

The whole industry is built on conning people they are normal priced calls when they are not.  If certain call centres all moved to 09 premium rate numbers we would still object to that in principal but at least it wouldn't be a con and at least people calling would realise those call centres are charging them a non standard rate excluded from inclusive calling allowances.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2006 at 12:43pm by ThisWebsiteIsAScam »  
 
IP Logged
 
Dave
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male
Re: RoboTelecom stop connecting 0870 Numbers
Reply #20 - Oct 19th, 2006 at 4:42pm
 
jasonfields007 wrote on Oct 19th, 2006 at 11:39am:
I'm not BT or Ofcom. I don't choose the prices that 0845 numbers are to call. ...

I have copied this quote from another post. The original post has been edited out, but I believe that the above sums the reason 084/087 numbers are so wrong.

Not because we don't like the fact that they are non-geographical and we can't see where the call's going. But because the statement is completely devoid of logic.

You say that you "don't choose the prices that 0845 numbers are to call." But if prices were to come down you would have less revenue, hence the reason for stopping connecting 0870 numbers. Or perhaps you know of a way of having your cake and eating it.

Therefore, I deduce that if you could choose, you would leave the charges as they are. Is this a fair evaluation of your views?

Quote:
... I'm just offering a good alternative to companies that want them to save money from very high BT charges.

This statement makes it clear that your relationship is with the service provider and that the charges to their customer are of no interest. Indeed, your "lo-call" marketing spiel says it all. You cling to the pipedream that 0845 is charged at local rate.

My understanding of 0845 is as follows (for 0870 substitute "national rate" for "local rate"):

It was previously 0345 (BT) and 0645 (Mercury, now C&W). Charges were the same as a local rate call on a BT package. Other providers like yours were allowed into the market by forcing BT to pass most of call charges on to them. BT retained enough to cover its costs of connecting the call.

Algebraically, this can be represented as follows:

c = b + x

where:
c is the cost of the call
b is the amount BT retain for connecting the call across its network
x is the amount that is paid to providers such as yourself

As prices for geographical calls have fallen, c, the price for 0845/0870 calls has not. To claim that 0845 is local rate is completely misleading as the framework for the numbers does not allow c to equal the cost of a local call because the NGN provider requires x.

If the originating telco were to lower the price they charge, then they would be making a loss. So the issue here is that these numbers are anti-competitive! They are therefore premium numbers because of the revenue or micro-payment, x, on top of the cost of transferring the call across the telephone network, which is represented by b.

If a company wants advanced routing, call statistics and all the other things that NTS provides, then they should pay for them. That allows for competition to drive prices down, rather than forcing Joe Public to pay, on a per minute basis, a pretty much fixed price for these services.

This is my understanding having read Ofcom's consultation documents. Is this a fair explanation of how things work?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dave
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male
Re: RoboTelecom stop connecting 0870 Numbers
Reply #21 - Oct 23rd, 2006 at 10:36pm
 
jasonfields007, do you wish to reply to any of the posts made since you last commented?

As someone who sells these numbers, I am particularly interested in your views on the points I have made above.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dave
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male
Re: RoboTelecom stop connecting 0870 Numbers
Reply #22 - Oct 26th, 2006 at 4:41pm
 
Interestingly, jasonfields007 was online on 24 October ar 10:51, but has not responded. It reminds me of the proprietor of Phoenix Travel, who would not publish the geographical number for her company and who visited the forums for upto a month after she last posted.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Dave, DaveM, bbb_uk, Forum Admin, CJT-80)

Website and Content © 1999-2024 SAYNOTO0870.COM. All Rights Reserved.
Written permission is required to duplicate any of the content within this site.

WARNING: This is an open forum, posts are NOT endorsed by SAYNOTO0870.COM,
please exercise due caution when acting on any info from here.


SAYNOTO0870.COM » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.


Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge