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Message for Shiggaddi (Read 28,589 times)
NGMsGhost
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Message for Shiggaddi
Oct 25th, 2006 at 10:43pm
 
Shiggaddi,

You sent me a PM asking about the senior management of Vodafone.  Unfortunately although I received the PM as I do not yet have 30 messages in the forum under this ID I cannot reply to your message by PM.

You can find the senior management of Vodafone in the following places:-

The Directors of Vodafone UK are at:-

http://www.vodafone.com/mc_section_search_results/0,3223,OPCO%253D40018%2526MT_I...

The Directors of Vodafone Group Plc (the group holding company for the whole brand) are at:-

http://www.vodafone.com/mc_section_search_results/0,3223,LANGUAGE_ID%253D0%2526M...

Email address format is firstname.lastname@vodafone.com
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Shiggaddi
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #1 - Oct 26th, 2006 at 4:19pm
 
Thanks for this.

The reason I needed this info, is because I got a mobile from Dial-a-phone in May last year, and in order to get the cashback for the line rental, you have to send in a claim every few months, to get a portion of the line rental paid to your airtime account.

You have to send it to Dial-a-phone, and Vodafone's only involvement is receiving the money, and crediting it to my airtime account.

However, I sent in the claim as normal to dial-a-phone at the end of August, and my money has not been credited to my Vodafone airtime account.  After calling Vodafone customer services, they confirmed that they had not received this money.

Dial-a-phone are one of the worse abusers of 0870, making a very complicated call menu, where you have to go through their voice recognition before even being allowed to join their 30 minute queue.  I did however manage to speak to the supervisor on the sales line (answered immediately) who said that I need to write a letter to Dial-a-phone.

I got written confirmation from Vodafone that they haven't received the money, and sent a copy to Dial-a-phone.  All I got back from Dial-a-phone was a letter saying that they sent it to Vodafone, and I should chase it up with them.

All in all, neither party wants to take leadership of the missing money.  I had a call from someone from Vodafone earlier today, saying they're well aware of Dial-a-phone's cowboy tactics and have stopped them selling phones on their network, because of the ill will, from numerous customers (glad I'm not alone then!!)

I feel that Vodafone should follow the lead set by O2, and not allow airtime accounts to be credited.  All other networks on Dial-a-phone, to claim the money back, you get issued with a cheque instead, and this stops dial-a-phone from being able to pass the buck to the network operators, as they can only write a cheque, and no responsibility lies with the network in the process.

But because Vodafone allow cashback to be paid in this way, dial-a-phone can avoid paying out cashback and force customers to go between 2 companies, neither of which will take ownership.  It suits Dial-a-phone, because they can say it's been paid, and they fulfilled their part of the bargain, and vodafone can say they have no record of the payment, and there's nothing they can do.

However, by writing to the board of directors at vodafone, with this problem, they might stop Dial-a-phone from operating in this manner.  Luckily, they have already taken some action and vodafone is no longer available from dial-a-phone.

Anyway, how can I recover this money?  Surely if I owed someone some money, and sent it to their bank account, and the money didn't reach the other side, I'd want to chase things up and ask why.  Dial-a-phone are not in the least bit concerned that money they sent for me didn't arrive, which might suggest that they didn't even send it, or someone in accounts made an error, and it was sent somewhere else.  If that was the case, then surely they still owe me the money, and it's up to them to investigate where the money has gone and why it's not appeared on my account.

Vodafone also advised that I should start legal proceedings against dial-a-phone, to recover this money.  Anyway, the advice to everyone reading this, is NEVER EVER BUY A PHONE FROM DIAL-A-PHONE!!!!
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I realy hait itt wen peeple canot spel proply. Itt getts onn mye nervs sew mutch annd streses mee owt. Knot onley iz itt vary bade speling butt allso bade gramer.
 
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NGMsGhost
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #2 - Oct 26th, 2006 at 5:14pm
 
Shiggaddi,

I wish you best of luck but personally I would never buy another mobile phone or any other product from a retailer like The Link Or DialAPhone who claim you will get further cash back in months 4 7 10 etc if only you send in your bills in a very short time period.  Actually come to think of it I never did buy one with these Cashback terms having inquired about how they worked and knowing that I personally would not be able to fulfil them (and also suspecting a scam because of all the obvious pitfalls that let you fall foul of getting the cashback).

I regard all such offers as a scam that should be made illegal by the Office of Fair Trading personally.  And certainly I would not class as actually being free line rental any offer of line rental dependent on giving you the money back later under restrictive conditions in this way.

I would email the CEO and marketing people of Vodafone UK and see if you get anywhere.  Failing that I would suggest approaching Trading Standards and assuming that DialAPhone prove intransigent then file an online claim in the Small Claims Court which I have never done but which reputedly is very easy to do and the only thing that makes sharks like DialAPhone sit up and take notice.
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Shiggaddi
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #3 - Oct 26th, 2006 at 5:57pm
 
I wish you best of luck but personally I would never buy another mobile phone or any other product from a retailer like The Link Or DialAPhone who claim you will get further cash back in months 4 7 10 etc if only you send in your bills in a very short time period.  Actually come to think of it I never did buy one with these Cashback terms having inquired about how they worked and knowing that I personally would not be able to fulfil them (and also suspecting a scam because of all the obvious pitfalls that let you fall foul of getting the cashback).

In my case, actually qualifying for the cashback wasn't the issue.

They do rely on people forgetting to send in the claims, but I had done all of this, and even got an acknowledgement saying they would be crediting my airtime account.  When I wrote to Dialaphone, they did not they sent the money, so they are not avoiding the issue of whether I qualify for the payment, they're just saying it's been paid as far as they're concerned.

It does look like Vodafone have taken notice, because they no longer allow dialaphone to sell phones on their network, down purely to the number of complaints.  They should go one step further, and not allow payment through airtime accounts for current customers.  Orange still allow this, and I'll be bringing the matter to their attention, even though my Orange phone is on E2save, which incidently have paid all my cashback claims so far (hopefully so far so good!!)  O2 stopped allowing this practice, and T-Mobile, and 3 have either never allowed it, or stopped allowing it years ago with dialaphone.

E2save pay claims for all networks via cheque, and so far I have always been paid shortly after sending in the claim.  The only way they can wriggle out of it, is claiming my cashback claim was lost in the post, but they do insist on sending it in recorded delivery.

I shall certainly be involving trading standards with this issue, and I might even involve trading standards in Vodafone's area, and sending a joint e-mail to both.  I don't think Vodafone will be too happy being involved in all this mess, but seeing as the money has been lost between Dialaphone sending it, to me receiving it via vodafone, then both companies should be involved.  If it turns out that Dialaphone never did send it in the first place, then this will only strengthen Vodafone's decision not to sell new phones on their network via dialaphone.
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I realy hait itt wen peeple canot spel proply. Itt getts onn mye nervs sew mutch annd streses mee owt. Knot onley iz itt vary bade speling butt allso bade gramer.
 
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NGMsGhost
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #4 - Oct 26th, 2006 at 6:27pm
 
Shiggaddi wrote on Oct 26th, 2006 at 5:57pm:
I shall certainly be involving trading standards with this issue, and I might even involve trading standards in Vodafone's area, and sending a joint e-mail to both.  I don't think Vodafone will be too happy being involved in all this mess, but seeing as the money has been lost between Dialaphone sending it, to me receiving it via vodafone, then both companies should be involved.  If it turns out that Dialaphone never did send it in the first place, then this will only strengthen Vodafone's decision not to sell new phones on their network via dialaphone.


Although as a Vodafone PayAsYouGo customer I know to my cost that they are certainly extremely devious and unscrupulous (for instance hiding the fact that their supposed Passport deal of 75p fixed per incoming call in other EU countries does not apply to calls that originate from the country that you are currently on holiday in and always hiding on their website the real cost of 084 and 087 calls and the fact that they are also excluded from the Passport deal) they are not generally speaking administratively incompetent.

With great respect I would point out that to Vodafone you are just one of ex million new customers a year so they will only change their policy if a large number of other customers complain about this issue.  And I doubt they are going to pay up on behalf of DialAPhone in this case.

So coming back to the original issue I expect we will find going down the road that DialAPhone is in financial trouble and has major cashflow difficulties and that this is why they are withholding your cashback while pretending it has all been paid.  Therefore I would file a small claims court case as soon as possible in order to try and get DialAPhone to pay up before they possibly go belly up in a few months time...............
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« Last Edit: Oct 26th, 2006 at 6:28pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #5 - Oct 27th, 2006 at 12:35am
 
Good to see you back NGM.  I knew you couldn't stay away for long!

I'm still doing battle with faxing etc.  Parking tickets is my speciality at the moment and have to contend with St Albans council.  They only provide a 0845 number with no geographic alternative and no obvious fax number for the Parking dept.  They insist that all appeals are put in writing.  However if I write I will have to have use Recorded delivery as I need proof that my appeal was served on them which will cost me getting on for a £1.  However if I can fax my appeal to a 01727 number then it's free and my fax provides me the proof that the fax was 'served' on them.  You see how useful the fax is?  I wish that more peope still used them.  Better still, remember the old TELEX?  I'm not sure if anyone uses that at all now, but you certainly had proof that your mesage got through which you don't always get with e-mail even if you ask your mail client (outlook, Mozilla, thunderbird etc) for a receipt.  Smiley

The fax is still king as far as I am concerned!


Alternative (from Mole Valley originally & now Three Rivers)
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« Last Edit: Oct 27th, 2006 at 12:38am by Alternative »  
 
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NGMsGhost
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #6 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 10:26am
 
Alternative wrote on Oct 27th, 2006 at 12:35am:
Better still, remember the old TELEX?  I'm not sure if anyone uses that at all now, but you certainly had proof that your mesage got through which you don't always get with e-mail even if you ask your mail client (outlook, Mozilla, thunderbird etc) for a receipt.  Smiley


A new business in the financial data industry I was involved in helping set up in 1996/1997 had to create a way to receive telexes electonically using an old fashioned and over priced BT email service called BT Gold.  The data came through to us like any other regular email and could be machine read unlike faxes many of which were incredibly hand written for the daily data being supplied.

Sadly 10 years on the telex is now almost totally dead except perhaps in places like Africa.  The fax will go the same way within a couple more years due to obvious problems like the fax running out of ink or paper and it taking up a whole phone line and not being able to send a message to numerous different people at one go....................

Just look at the number of shops now refusing to take cheques.  Unthinkable 5 years ago but reality today.
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #7 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 11:13pm
 
I stood in a queue.....oops! line  Wink this morning in a store here and both ladies in front of me paid with a cheque (or should that be check......?). That is not at all unusual - it happens frequently. It seems that it is far more common here to pay by cheque. I have heard that Americans do not like debit cards. I also now understand why I received about 20 cheque books when I opened a bank account!

I'm sure the US banks would like to get rid of them, but they seem to be ingrained in American society.

(bit like 0870 numbers in the UK....... Grin)
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #8 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 11:37pm
 
mikeinnc wrote on Oct 28th, 2006 at 11:13pm:
I'm sure the US banks would like to get rid of them, but they seem to be ingrained in American society.


Its only the brave few like Shell and Boots which have banned cheques so far but they aren't exactly being that OTT because to be honest I might only see someone else use a cheque at a shop in front of me may be once or twice a year.  And the fear of the retailers is that anyone still using a cheque is often a fraudster.

Five years ago a large number of older people were still using cheques rather than debit or credit cards.  I think most people prefer debit and credit cards now because its so much easier and quicker than getting an ink written cheque right.  And obviously the savings for the banks are huge compared to cheques.

The banks haven't even had to charge extra for cheques to get rid of them, although saying that I use a Visa credit card that pays me 1% cashback on everything I have bought in the year, so I suppose in fact using a cheque would cost me 1% more each time.
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #9 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 12:16am
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Oct 28th, 2006 at 11:37pm:
.. I use a Visa credit card that pays me 1% cashback on everything I have bought in the year,..

Except that it is the retailer and ultimately you and me that has to finance the cashback.
With a debit card there would, presumably, be less money milked out of retailers by the banks.
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #10 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 2:03am
 
Tanllan wrote on Oct 29th, 2006 at 12:16am:
Except that it is the retailer and ultimately you and me that has to finance the cashback.


No in this case the card is not advertised in expensive marketing promotions by Conran and instead it sells itself through the high cashback level which is regularly mentioned at sites like www.moneysavingexpert.com so there is actually no additional cost to me or the retailer above the usual fees he pays to Visa.  Basically I would characterise it as the credit card equivalent of making your 0870 calls with 18185.co.uk rather than BT.

As it happens after taking this card I also happened to discuss with MBNA an older dormant affinity brand card with my old University I had taken a couple of years earlier to get my Uni paid £30 or something and me given a free Accurist watch (I'm wearing it now as my 15 year old good quality Citizen packed up a few months back).  As I had rather a high income level then I had a large credit limit on the card and MBNA was doing a 10 month interest free promotion with only a small flat fee for providing the advance (basically I think because it was an old card no longer activedly sold as the cash advance fee was much lower than the one on my Conran card).  Anyhow MBNA is currently lending me quit a sizeable sum for 10 months interest fee which is now earning interest at 5% and should make me a tidy profit.

See www.conran.co.uk/activities/creditcard.html and www.dooyoo.co.uk/credit-card/conran-credit-card/1029664

Add to this that MBNA are about one of the only financial services companies in the UK to use 0800 numbers for all their customer service lines and also unusually have pleasant and empowered human beings and not robots (based up in Chester) on the other end of those lines and I can only say good on you MBNA and up yours Nasty West Credit Cards and banking who always tried to scam me and rook me at every possible turn!

By the way when I'm spending overseas I switch to using my Nationwide Gold Visa as that saves me 2.75% foreign exchange rate levy that MBNA and nearly all other Visa and Mastercards charge which is more than the 1% cashback I would earn on the Conran card.
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #11 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 9:47am
 
Credit cards attract a (much) higher transaction charge than debit cards; witness the differential charging on many websites.
Just like when Access and Barclaycard were launched in the UK and the industry stepped in to prevent retailers passing on the surcharge to customers.
The many and various offers are made by those card companies hoping for more business, but the retailers, and so ultimately you and me, pay for those higher charges.
Your investment is canny, but you and I still pay for the privilege of not using the debit card.
And, yes, isn't the Nationwide service excellent.

Sorry, guys, have gone off topic.
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #12 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 12:12pm
 
Anyhow MBNA is currently lending me quit a sizeable sum for 10 months interest fee which is now earning interest at 5% and should make me a tidy profit.

That is what is known as stoozing, as mentioned by MSE Martin, Motley Fool, and the stoozing website.

I have been doing this for years.  I get credit cards at 0%, then transfer the money to my savings account, and earn interest.  At the end of the 0%, I pay the money back and incur no interest charges, but I keep the interest that is paid to my savings account.

Although slightly off topic, it is close to the way mobile phone retailers sell phones with cashback line rental.  Credit card companies rely on people to miss payments, and forfeit their 0%, or continue with the debt paying 15% interest after the 0% is up.  They also rely on people making purchases on the card, which attract interest, whereas the 0% is for balance transfers only.

Mobile phone retailers employ similair tactics.  They rely on people forgetting to send in claims.  Some companies insist that cashback claims can only be paid if you don't port your number, and continue living at the same address, however when buying the phone, they offer the service where you can port your existing number over!!  However, most companies aren't that rigid with their T&Cs, but are some examples I've seen on other companies websites offering 12 months free line rental.  There was one that insisted on recorded delivery for claims, and enclosure of a 1st class SAE for the cheque!!

Dialaphone have gone one step further, and having sent in my claims as per the T&Cs and qualified for the offer, they just turn around and say that their system states the payment has been made, therefore it must have been made, even though Vodafone have not received it.  Looks like too many people know how to claim what is rightfully theirs, and they have to take additional steps to make sure more people forfeit their claims, by making it 0870 only, and go through complicated voice recognition that keeps mishearing you, then wait in the queue for half an hour.  Means they can make money out of those that give up on the queue by getting 0870 revenue for the queue time, and not pay members of staff to deal with them, and of course not pay out their cashback claim, because they give up!!

This is the most appauling service I've received from any company I've ever dealt with, and I intend to take the matter further through trading standards.
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I realy hait itt wen peeple canot spel proply. Itt getts onn mye nervs sew mutch annd streses mee owt. Knot onley iz itt vary bade speling butt allso bade gramer.
 
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NGMsGhost
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #13 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 12:35pm
 
Shiggaddi wrote on Oct 29th, 2006 at 12:12pm:
This is the most appauling service I've received from any company I've ever dealt with, and I intend to take the matter further through trading standards.


BBC Watchdog, Trading Standards and/or a claim against DialAPhone in the small cliams court remain your obvious ways ahead in resolving this.

DialAPhone are a very old mobile phone store vending brand.  Either they are about to go bust or someone less ethical has recently taken them over?
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Re: Message for Shiggaddi
Reply #14 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 12:40pm
 
Tanllan wrote on Oct 29th, 2006 at 9:47am:
Credit cards attract a (much) higher transaction charge than debit cards; witness the differential charging on many websites. Just like when Access and Barclaycard were launched in the UK and the industry stepped in to prevent retailers passing on the surcharge to customers.

The many and various offers are made by those card companies hoping for more business, but the retailers, and so ultimately you and me, pay for those higher charges.


Of course now though it is legal to impose a surcharge for paying by credit card and some do, most notoriously the Ryanairs and Easyjets of this world who charge an unfair flat fee of £4 per booking (a huge percentage on a super cheapy of £30 to £50 return all in).  However outside the travel industry no one does seem to charge extra for credit cards (their choice).

I do consider using Switch where the merchant offers me a lower price.  Unfortunately though Switch is the worst payment method to use for an expensive online purchase like a notebook computer since if you buy your notebook PC for say £20 less than a reputable firm on a £700 purchase from DellBoy's bucket shops inc (or from a company in the USA) and it turns out to be a refurb or pre-owned when you get it you have no rights to put the transaction in dispute and all you can do is go to the Police or Trading Standards.  In the same way that Direct Debit is the safest and most protected way to pay for something unfortunately Switch is the most dangerous and gives you almost as few rights as paying for something in cash does.  No chargebacks, no nothing unfortunately unless you can prove the card number and CVV number was obtained illegally.  But if the goods are not up to standard Switch cannot help.

I agree credit cards have their downsides but they also have many upsides for canny consumers who only take the pluses like the interest free period, these cashback deals and the free balance transfers.  By contrast as far as I can see 084/7 numbers only have a one way downside risk for consumers and no upside?  Just to bring the discussion back into the territory of this forum.

The Conran card is good because it has being paying the 1% cashback for over 5 years without change and everywhere takes Visa.  Although you can get similar cashback on certain Amex or Morgan Stanley credit cards they charge an annual fee and also are in the habit of constantly revising the terms to become worse shortly after you have taken the card out.

GE Money was offering 3% Cashback on groceries and petrol up to £5,000 a year on its Everyday credit card launched in the Spring but have now pulled the deal.  Almost certainly this was a cheap marketing trick as most merchants only pay 2% commission, especially low margin merchants like petrol stations and grocery stores.  Conran Visa pays 1% cashback year after year......
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