acezing wrote on Nov 9^th, 2006 at 3:24pm:


Clearly if it suits the mod its ok to keep plastering links that lead to ngn suppliers. 7 links in this thread alone? Which conveniently brings up their Google Ad at top of page!!!

Hi BBB_UK,

Still a slight mis-understanding.  Obviously, I agree with what you're saying regarding OCPs and I bet you're as worried as we are about the potential 'mis-use' of the network level message on 0870 calls post Feb 2008...

I was trying to explain that we have no influence on making our clients promote an 0845 number to their consumers at 3.95ppm - ie on a brochure or website or advert - call XXX company on 0845 123 4567 (call costs 3.95ppm) - as they would have to do with Premium Rate.  This should be down to Ofcom to potentially enforce.

I think what we're highlighting here is that this is a very complex area and we have done our best to inform our clients and now the wider business 0870 users of what the Ofcom proposals actually mean and what viable options they have going forward.

Maybe there's a need to do something similar (from an independent stand point) for the consumer - ie 'NTStransparency.com' or 'therealcostof08xx.com' or whatever ?  Maybe it's even something we could work on together... ?

Anyway, it's great to see consumers actually effect change and congratulations on the site and all you've achieved.

All the best,
0870Advice

Heinz wrote on Nov 9^th, 2006 at 4:51pm:
It is extremely common to have freephone numbers in the states and companies like BA use freephone in the states but 0870 here in the UK!!?!?

I believe its because its become the "norm" to have an NTS (mostly 0870) number in this country especially as the government themselves use them!

I have no idea of the cost difference of running a freephone in the UK compared to the states.  It could be a lot more expensive to run a freephone in the UK compared to the states which is inkeeping with us being in ROB (Rip Off Britain).

0870advice.com wrote on Nov 9^th, 2006 at 4:52pm:
I totally agree you have no control over this but I was referring to the fact that you mislead your own customers (businesses) by stating 0845 is local rate and 0870 is national rate.  You are clearly aware that you are misleading your customers and this could be brought to the attention of your local trading standards for misleading potential customers.  When I say 'local' or 'national' rate I don't just mean stating the cost I was talking about the misleading use of the two phrases, 'local and 'national'.  Both these phrases, by definition, could easily imply that 0845 costs the exact same as a real/geographical local number and that 087x costs the same as a real/geographical national number but I know you are aware that there are differences in prices.

This is why so many consumers are still confused simply because of the continuing misleading description of 'local' rate and 'national' rate.

Many years ago 0845 was local rate (and cost the same as a local geographical call) and 0870 was national rate (and cost the same as a national geographical call) but this changed two years ago due to competition, etc but yet CPs still misleadingly continue with these two phrases despite the fact it's not true at all and hasn't been for 2 years.

I'm sure the ASA ruled that a CP couldn't mention that 0845 was local rate and 0870 was national rate, etc.  Does anyone still have this link by any chance?

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 9^th, 2006 at 2:13pm:


Presumably this is because of the recognition that Ofcom is an utterly incompetent and/or more likely utterly corrupt toothless tiger who will never ever fine a good old business bro of Stephen Carter or David Currie in the telco industry when it would be easier just to let down the general public again content in the knowledge that nobody can ever fire the useless board directors or their other complacent 2nd level named but not actual "director" henchmen all earning in excess of £100,000 per annum total salary package.

I suspect this could be a good issue to go to one's MP over asking for a complaint to be referred to the Parliamentary Ombudsman.

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 9^th, 2006 at 5:08pm:


See the Artiste formerly known as NGM recent post in this thread.

http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1163008795

Heinz wrote on Nov 9^th, 2006 at 4:51pm:


There are some American companies operating in the UK who do deploy the same telecoms strategy as they use back home across all their telephone contact numbers.  MBNA use 0800 numbers for all forms of customer contact.

See www.mbna.co.uk/contact/index.html

0870advice.com wrote on Nov 9^th, 2006 at 8:45am:


Both companies like yours that sell the numbers and take part of the revenue share and the scam UK businesses who run these numbers and will continue to be able to earn hidden premium rate revenue share regulated by ICSTIS bit incredibly no longer presented to the public as or called Premium Rate.  Or just carry on without control at all on 0844 at 5p per minute at all times as scammers NEG have done with all the doctors surgeries practice managers they have encouraged to ripoff their patients.

The Ofcom proposals are deliberately and cynically intended to be seen to be doing something about 0870 whilst Ofcom knows full well that all the scams on 0870 will simply transfer to 0844 or 0871 at 5p or 10p per minute.  The only exception will be the BBC and major government agency contact centres who will find moving to 0871 politically unacceptable.

If you really objected to this whole scam you wouldn't have been selling it and earning your living from it and instead would have been finding a way to keep all your telecoms customers on PSTN 01/02 or Voip based 01/02 Geographic Numbers (which do exist as www.sipgate.co.uk shows).