I was interested to come across the website www.0870advice.com which is advertised at the bottom of some pages on this website.

As a website aimed at providing advice to businesses who have 0870 numbers and how to deal with the introduction of the new regulations over the coming year, it's not surprising that they highlight disadvantages of the new 0370 number range.

But are they correct when they say on this page www.0870advice.com/moving-0370.html that the "called party pays to receive calls" and that 0370 numbers "Can not be called from outside UK"?

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2006 at 2:17pm:

This continues the discussion here by 0870advice.com who is an NGN provider.

By allowing NGN providers to charge per minute, does this put us (in a round about fashion) back to square one?

03xx numbers should cost the same to terminate as 01/02 calls do, but they apparently will not. I can think of three options that originating providers will have:

1. Carry these calls at the same rate as geographical calls. This may have the tendancy to push up prices for these calls above what it actually costs for geographical calls and will surely be an issue for 'inclusive' packages where, presumably, the monthly charge is set at such a rate as to cover the cost of terminating all the geographical calls.
2. Carry these calls at a higher rate than geographical numbers (with a recorded announcement), thereby just continuing the current issues with these numbers.
3. Do not carry these numbers. This is obviously quite impractical, but nevertheless Ofcon allows such a 'choice' for anyone other than BT.

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2006 at 2:53pm:


This is very bad news and seems to contradict Ofcom's news release in July 'Ofcom plans future of UK Telephone Numbering' http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2006/07/nr_20060727:



If 03 numbers are to be included in call allowances - how can a supplement be charged?

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2006 at 4:09pm:

Public and parliamentary pressure that will arise due to the cretinous failure of OfCoN to return 0845 to geographic rates on 1st Feb 2008 will mean most government departments, charities and Police forces who run 0845 numbers will have to get an equivalent 0370 number alternative.  I'm just about to send a major FOI request to Surrey County Council and Surrey Police (copying in all county councillors) with achieving that very end in mind.

As to 0870Advice ultimately his lot are just another of the scammers but at least he was an intelligent one prepared to demonstrate how it was all mainly the fault of Ofcom's and OFTEL's lousy regulatory regime that had allowed the whole sordid industry to develop in the first place.

Dave wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2006 at 4:31pm:


Not sure.  Perhaps Ofcom can explain why they are now to allow 08 to contain FreePhone, geographic national rate and premium rate services and how the public at large is meant to understand this.

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2006 at 5:13pm:
That is obviously very confusing for the public I agree.  Ofcon obviously have no intention to force migration from 084x/087x as it would cost companies too much money (again it's always the companies that come first and not consumers) so the best we can hope for is that Ofcon stop the widespread use of the terms local/national rate to describe 084x/087x just like the non-broadcast side of the ASA are trying to do and use other terms like "Business rate number" (ofcom's idea - not mine) instead.  Ofcon should then ensure us public know that these so-called "Business rate numbers" are in fact premium rate numbers albeit smaller than existing 09x numbers.  As I've said before, "full disclosure."

Realistically speaking there was no way Ofcon was/is going to force companies/gov depts, etc from 084x/087x to 09x.  I also believe that when 0845 is looked at again in the future - nothing will be done.

It appears that at least one CP is already thinking of challenging Ofcom's decision on 0870 numbers which obviously means Ofcom wont dare do anything to existing number ranges now.

I agree with NGNGhost that pressure may force gov depts to migrate to the 03x range despite it will cost them more to run but I think that it would be a lot of pressure needed for some gov depts at least.

Even as a consumer who hates these numbers, I do believe it's unfair for any gov dept/company, etc to actually pay x amount per minute for calls to them especially in this day and age.  This happened in the very old days but since then the cost of geographical calls have dropped a lot.  However, I do think that apart from basic diversion to one number, any other features like advanced call diversion, IVR's, etc should be paid for as a feature just like we pay for call diversion and the other features available on landlines.  If companies/gov departments want these 'network features' they should pay for them just like us consumers have to pay for any features we may want.

Call08.com are able to do freephone numbers that only cost companies 2p/min for every call they receive plus they get 500mins (I think) included for only £5 per month.  This is good value and so I hope that Call08.com could do something similar for the new 03x range except (and ideally) not charge companies x amount per minute for calls they receive - instead just charging them a monthly linerental where they pay for any network features required as a small monthly fee.

If the above was possible, then I would like to believe there would be very little resistance in migrating from 084x/087x to the new 03x range.  I guess we wont know now until next year whether this is at all possible.

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2006 at 11:04am:


I don't think the suggestion of the term Business Rate by OfCoN is the least but helpful and is basically designed as a Trojan Horse so that the use of 0871 numbers by business is given the Green Light by Ofcom and ICSTIS to become the norm for business.  It is a vile and deceitful suggestion that shows how deeply the incompetent, criticism allergic and overpaid cynics who work at senior levels in Ofcom are in bed with the profit making call centre industry.

I am contemplating some interesting FOI question to OfCoN on the total value of calls over several years on uk residential fixed line quarterly phone bills and the cost of calls on those fixed lines that arise due to 01/02, 084/7, 09 and 118 numbers as separate subtotals over several years.  I think those figures would make for some extremely interesting and illuminating reading.

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2006 at 4:36pm:

Remember Matt Peacock's statement on BBC Radio 4's You and Yours programme where he agreed that these numbers are "premium rate numbers but by another name".