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ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate (Read 47,023 times)
NGMsGhost
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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #30 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 3:42pm
 
timmygcsc2308 wrote on Dec 4th, 2006 at 3:27pm:
And I can't believe you have considered against an Entanet reseller because of an 0870 issue, how misinformed you must be..so who are you going to plump for then? AOL? NTL? Even if you DID need to contact Freeola tech support, their FREE email response would be quicker than waiting on hold with a 'big' ISP. Trust me you are a fool if you are going to put this company down


No I would never go to TalkTalk, NTL or Tiscali although actually AOL were quite a good choice for heavy downloaders prior to their acquisition by TalkTalk.  The main companies I would consider as alternative to Freeola and none of whom use 0871 numbers are those top rated for customer support and broadband speed at www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings.php and www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_speed.php?test=8128&month=11&year=2006&submit=View+average...

Also I thought you should know that last week I called UKFSN on their London geographic number and got straight through to Jason who's knowledge about the broadband industry and issues with ADSLMax etc was extremely impressive.  As you know www.ukfsn.org are another reseller of Entanet broadband packages and have been in business a long time in ISP terms but they do not levy the £5 per month additional charge that Freeola makes from Month 4 on (clawing back all the month 1 to 3 artificial discount for anyone merely migrating to them rather than getting a new connection).

As a potential customer of Freeola who lost my custom due to their offputting 0871 numbers and extra £5 levy a month after Month 4 over better priced Entanet suppliers I am quite entitled to give my view.

I can tell you that other good quality ISPs listed at www.dslzoneuk.net are able to offer just as fast a broadband service and just as good customer support without using 0871.  IDNet who are also near top rated for customer support and ADSL Max download speed use 0800 numbers and NewNet use 0845 as do Zen.  Had 0871 been used but the 10p per minute been made clear by Freeola that would be one thing.  To use 0871 and then disgracefully try to play dumb about how it should be described (since its obvious from your own comments that Freeola staff know perfectly well what the costs implications of calling 0871 compared to 0870 are)  is just quite outrageous.

We are talking about blatant breaches of ASA rules and trading standards rules here just so Freeola could put a few more pence per minute in its pocket from calls without many of its customers initially realising (due to the National Rate misdescription which is far more outrageous and unforgiveable on 0871 than 0870).

Speaking of which you remind me to start a thread about Entanet calling its 0870 technical support number on its website National Rate.  But at least Entanet have geographic alternatives in the Unverified database on this site which I have checked and are answered on the very first ring.

There are several other decent quality ISPs with fast connections none of whom use 0871 and some of whom use geographic or 0800 numbers.  So what's Freeola's excuse for using 0871 then and calling it National Rate then until we complained loudly about this being heavily misleading?
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« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2006 at 11:59am by Dave »  

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NGMsGhost
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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #31 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 3:52pm
 
Oh and what further gets my goat about Freeola deliberately trying to mislead customers over its in any case bad practice in using 0871 numbers is the fact they have the nerve to use the word Free in their brand name and rabbit on about Free services on their website only to rip people off with an 0871 number they didn't admit the true call costs of.

Then on top of that they have withheld their real geographic number deliberately from Directory Enquiries (www.192.com, www.118118.co.uk etc) and also just about anywhere else where Google might find a trace of it.  That tells me the company knew all along the real status of an 0871 number and that it was a covert premium rate and never was or has been National Rate at any time.

By the way congratulations also on re-promoting this thread to the top of the first page of the Non-Geographical Numbers Chat section of the forum.  I'm sure your old boss will be pleased with you about that. Wink Roll Eyes

Also I don't know why you guys worry so much about what is on this website about Freeola as by definition anyone misinformed enough to become a Freeola customer despite its prominent use of 0871 numbers will not be someone who never visits the www.saynoto0870.com website or especially its discussion forum. Tongue
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« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2006 at 6:52pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #32 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 6:37pm
 
timmygcsc2308 wrote on Dec 4th, 2006 at 3:27pm:
Even if you DID need to contact Freeola tech support, their FREE email response would be quicker than waiting on hold with a 'big' ISP.
What happens if the very reason you need to contact them is due to having no broadband access?  A quick visit down the library to email them and await their reply!

I personally don't mind if they use premium rate numbers as that is upto each individual company.  However, what I personally object to is the use of these numbers as stealth premium rate numbers.

If Freeola was to use an 09x number charged at 10p/min (the same rate as a call to 0871 from a landline only), then Freeola would get less customers simply because most consumers are aware that 09x numbers are premium rate numbers and that the company called is getting a share of the call costs.

In most cases, this doesn't happen to those using 084x/087x numbers as most consumers think these are charged at either local or national rate and even if they did know how much the call was (in most cases this is doubtful as teleco's don't like to publish these rates) they would never have guessed that the company (and government departments) that use these numbers are actually receiving money from the call just like they would on an 09x number except consumers don't know (in most cases) about the revenue share on 084/087x numbers unlike 09x numbers.
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« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2006 at 6:38pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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NGMsGhost
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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #33 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 7:07pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Dec 4th, 2006 at 6:37pm:
In most cases, this doesn't happen to those using 084x/087x numbers as most consumers think these are charged at either local or national rate and even if they did know how much the call was (in most cases this is doubtful as teleco's don't like to publish these rates) they would never have guessed that the company (and government departments) that use these numbers are actually receiving money from the call just like they would on an 09x number except consumers don't know (in most cases) about the revenue share on 084/087x numbers unlike 09x numbers.


But also bbb calling 0871 "National Rate" is far more of an outrageous thing to do than calling 0870 National Rate which does at least have a historical basis to it, even though I'm perfectly convinced that all the call centres who continue to misuse the term only do so because they think they can get away with it and not because they actually really think its National Rate.

I had some ridiculous conversation with a Tesco central call centre customer services supervisor (which was only necessary because one of their dimwit customer service advisers who incredibly all call themselves customer service managers had refused to just send me some vouchers for some strawberries that were dissolving into gunge in my fridge a day before Use By date and insisted I had to return to the store with them before deliberately cutting me off when I said this was not standard company procedure) in the course of which I complained about their store 0845 numbers for calling all Tesco stores only for this woman "a so called "supervisor") to tell me they were a local rate call.  When I told her to check her BT phone bill for calls after 6pm on weekday she still wouldn't have it and insisted they were local.  Then when I asked if she didn't find 0845 numbers were excluded from bundled minutes on her mobile phone contract she admitted that she did indeed have a contract mobile and had found this to be the case.  Incredible really but I honestly think companies only select as call centre workers those who are easily brainwashable and do exactly as they are told (that is about 50% or more of personality types in the UK to be quite honest) and don't argue against company dogma  and I'm sure these exact same people would have been telling me there were "no extermination camps" some years ago and that was definitely the case because the company's management had told them it was so.

As to the highly inappropriately named Freeola (more like Payola if you ask me) through their contributions to their thread I think they have only served to further blacken the already very poor image created by their use of 0871 numbers for all customer contact including sales.  The only hope to redeem themselves now would seem to be to get an 0800 number for sales and an 0845 number or geographic phone number for technical support as fast as possible.
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« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2006 at 7:08pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #34 - Dec 5th, 2006 at 12:38am
 
TimmyGCSC, as you have probably already spotted there is little point in speaking up for common-sense on this site.  Even though I have taken the advice in good faith and acted upon it within 24 hours or so, this NGMsGhost is still spitting blood at full whack and is about, I think, to move onto our technical partners and pick a fight with them.

At one point Freeola was plastered across this forum as scammers - that's putting us in the same club (according to the rest of this site) as fraudulent telemarketers and the 'you've won a prize to the caribbean - call our £500 per minute line to claim your prize' brigade. 

Although I disagree with some of the views of the operators and contributors, I fully respect this site and the fact that they feel strong enough about something to want to run it.  However, I can't see that the methods, language and hostility used by certain contributors is going to help them achieve their aims.

How can you seriously justify continuing to shoot a company to bits who has had some quite abusive wording written about them, checked the position and advice given and then acted genuinely and quickly upon that advice?

Anyway, Timmy thank you for your kind words and good luck with whatever you're doing now.

NGM - thanks for the laughs, you are utterly hilarious and the best thing is I don't think you even mean to be!!  I can't wait for the next installment...

Regards,
Danny (GM not MD)
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NGMsGhost
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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #35 - Dec 5th, 2006 at 10:36am
 
freeola.com wrote on Dec 5th, 2006 at 12:38am:
At one point Freeola was plastered across this forum as scammers - that's putting us in the same club (according to the rest of this site) as fraudulent telemarketers and the 'you've won a prize to the caribbean - call our £500 per minute line to claim your prize' brigade.


0871 numbers are generally used for most of these scams now where the company rings with an automated call saying you have won a prize and to ring them back to find out how to collect it.

The reason - because 0871 is the highest revenue share rate available without being subject to ICSTIS controls as you knew full well when you decided to take such numbers.

So now you use the right wording for the cost of the calls after months of using the wrong wording and expect us to give you credit for that.  That would be like expecting a burglar to get credit for finally returning the goods he stole or expecting a television license dodger to finally get credit for buying a TV license.

If there is any lesson you should have learned from this whole episode it is that you are using the wrong telephone numbers and need to change them.  IDNet charge £25 a month too for their 30Gb Max service and they use 0800 numbers.  Almost no ISP other than Freeola uses an 0871 number for sales.
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« Last Edit: Dec 5th, 2006 at 3:10pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #36 - Dec 5th, 2006 at 2:43pm
 
freeola.com wrote on Dec 5th, 2006 at 12:38am:
[...]How can you seriously justify continuing to shoot a company to bits who has had some quite abusive wording written about them, checked the position and advice given and then acted genuinely and quickly upon that advice? [...]
Regards,
Danny (GM not MD)
And how does your organization continue to justify the use of telephone numbers that treat customers and potential customers with contempt?
If you really do want to extract 10p/min from potential customers calling your sales line, at least be up front about it and use a 10p/min 09 number rather than hiding behind an 0871 number that is poorly regulated and the costs of calling such a number are generally not recognized by many consumers until they receive their phone bill. What is actually that wrong with a geographic number? Why can't you factor in the cost of providing sales and support into your general business costs? Why are UK businesses so uniquely dependent on revenue-generating telephone numbers?
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NGMsGhost
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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #37 - Dec 5th, 2006 at 3:17pm
 
idb wrote on Dec 5th, 2006 at 2:43pm:
And how does your organization continue to justify the use of telephone numbers that treat customers and potential customers with contempt?


Perhaps idb because we are dealing with a man here who is capable only of thinking as far as how many quid per month an existing call volume to the old geographic number would bring in if they were all converted to 0871 without being able to analyse the finer points such as lots of potential customers taking their business elsewhere or some existing customers slowly leaving the Freeola service for a variety of reasons but that include the existence of the ripiff 0871 number.
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« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2006 at 12:25pm by Dave »  

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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #38 - Dec 6th, 2006 at 9:53am
 
I see an 01279 geographic alternative to Freeola's expensive 0871 technical support number is now available in the Unverified geographic alternatives section of this website's database.

I didn't think that number was there when I checked a few days ago so may be it has been added by a member of Freeola's own staff who does not support the 0871 number phone call scam. Wink

Quote:
Freeola (Entanet)       0871 2109977             01279 322770


I hope as many Freeola customers as possible will now use this alternative 01279 number.  If of course Freeola now changes the geographic number the 0871 directs to then if I was one of Freeola's customers I would change my ISP to either www.ukfsn.org.uk or www.adsl24.co.uk who also provide the same Entanet broadband product at a cheaper monthly price.
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« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2006 at 9:57am by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #39 - Dec 6th, 2006 at 4:48pm
 
idb wrote on Dec 5th, 2006 at 2:43pm:
If you really do want to extract 10p/min from potential customers calling your sales line, at least be up front about it and use a 10p/min 09 number rather than hiding behind an 0871 number that is poorly regulated and the costs of calling such a number are generally not recognized by many consumers until they receive their phone bill
I couldn't agree more!  Smiley
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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #40 - Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:38pm
 
Me again, got my phone bill and it was almost £2.80 for my call to Freeola which after the long wait to get an advisor, lasted 30 seconds, so I emailed them asking as a goodwill gesture for them to refund me some or all the charges, to get a reply back saying"thats odd if the line is busy we usually call up our other staff"

I have decided to go for UKFSN or Vivaciti(who I was going for originally but couldnt afford activation fee)

Both have the best reps of the Enta resellers.

Still im only 5 weeks into contract, but you can be assured as soon as month 3 starts they will recieve a  MAC code request
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NGMsGhost
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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #41 - Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:54pm
 
ryouga wrote on Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:38pm:
Me again, got my phone bill and it was almost £2.80 for my call to Freeola which after the long wait to get an advisor, lasted 30 seconds, so I emailed them asking as a goodwill gesture for them to refund me some or all the charges, to get a reply back saying"thats odd if the line is busy we usually call up our other staff"

I have decided to go for UKFSN or Vivaciti(who I was going for originally but couldnt afford activation fee)

Still im only 5 weeks into contract, but you can be assured as soon as month 3 starts they will recieve a  MAC code request


I would tend to favour UKFSN because Vivaciti prominently use an 0870 number on their website.  Not as bad as 0871 but not far off in the weekday daytime.  By contrast UKFSN use a London geographic 020 number which is answered straight away despite it being only small print at the foot of their web pages (they would prefer that you email them and are famous for their fast turn around email responses).

Or www.adsl24.co.uk, another Entanet reseller, use an 0800 number and Brian there has called me back and had a helpful conversation with me after a couple of difficulties with the voicemail messages I left him somehow getting deleted by their system.  My only concern would be ADSL24 has only been going a month or so whereas UKFSN has been around for 3 years.

Once you are on board with UKFSN or ADSL24 all the real support comes from www.entanet.co.uk who are open 24 hours 7 days a week unlike most of the smaller better quality broadband providers.  And although they list an 0870 number on their website SayNoTo0870 lists an 01 alternative which is answered on the whole on the first ring.

Of course there is currently an 01279 alternative listed for Freeola on this website although I don't know whether they would agree to talk to you if you called that number and given their generally unashamed attitude about using an 0871 number I wonder if they aren't even currently in the process of having that geographic alternative number closed down.

As to Freeola claiming you must have been the only one holding for 30 minutes this is standard tactics by all these 087 call centre customer abusers.  By contrast I have rarely ever been kept on hold for long when calling an 0800 number................... Wink
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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #42 - Dec 16th, 2006 at 3:23pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 30th, 2006 at 6:47pm:
Have just discovered that the wholesaler used by Freeola to provide their broadband service are also misleading customers over the cost of telephone calls by claiming that 0870 is National Rate

www.entanet.co.uk/index.php?id=104

Quote:
National rate phone line 0870 224 3494


While it is their choice as to whether they should be using an 0870 number or not they should only be describing it as "Calls cost up to 8p per minute from BT landlines" and not as National Rate.

I wonder if I need to start another thread under the name of Entanet to draw their attention to this matter?


I e-mailed them about the misleading description of that number and received only an auto reply  saying they " respond to e-mails within 5 hours or by 10 a.m the following day if received out of hours", (I sent it on 1-12-06),  I have just looked at that page, it now says,  "National variable rate phone line 0870 224 3494".
I have e-mailed them again pointing out that the term "national rate" is prohibited.
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« Last Edit: Dec 16th, 2006 at 3:24pm by derrick »  
 
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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #43 - Dec 16th, 2006 at 3:50pm
 
At least there is a geographic alternative listed for Entanet on the SayNoTo0870 website and they do seem to answer it straight away.  It needs bold action by Ofcom of the kind they have finally taken over compulsory ADSL migration codes to stop the persisent 084/7 call cost misdescription.  I'm going to put in an FOI asking what plans Ofcom have to publicise their new 0345 and 0370 number codes when they launch them and how much they spent on national newspaper ads to publicise decontrol of BT call prices in the summer.

I'm trying broadband from NewNet at the moment on their Lite service to see how much use they clock up for me each month but if it ends up costing me nearer to £20 per month, rather than the £12.99 I was hoping for I may yet end up moving to www.ukfsn.org. Entanet do have the alternative to the 0870 and at least Entanet are open 7 days a week 24/7 for technical support issues, whereas the likes of Zen, IDNet and NewNet are not.
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« Last Edit: Dec 16th, 2006 at 3:53pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: ISP Freeola Claims 0871 is National Rate
Reply #44 - Jan 1st, 2007 at 11:35pm
 
Vivaciti have told me they are listing a freephone support number as of this month!

Sounds good to me!
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