SAYNOTO0870.COM - SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition

wacs Newbie Offline Posts: 41	Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition Reply #45 - Jan 31^st, 2007 at 8:10pm Now 906. And on page 2!
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Keith Senior Member Offline Posts: 378 Surrey Gender:	Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition Reply #46 - Feb 1^st, 2007 at 9:42am Its hit 1000. Now 71st on the list and 3rd on the list of Information and Communication petitions Long way to go before it overtakes the 1st petition on Road pricing which has over 600,000 signatures, but as that is growing by 5,000 - 10,000 signatures per day I'm rather suspicious that these are genuine signatures!!!!
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NGMsGhost

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Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition
Reply #47 - Feb 1^st, 2007 at 10:39am

Keith wrote on Feb 1^st, 2007 at 9:42am:

Long way to go before it overtakes the 1st petition on Road pricing which has over 600,000 signatures, but as that is growing by 5,000 - 10,000 signatures per day I'm rather suspicious that these are genuine signatures!!!!

I think you forget how many car clubs etc there are out there and that a lot of them are actively promoting the signing of this petition to their members.

Whereas this is the hidden ripoff that most of the public are still totally unaware of. Also annoying though this telephone con is the consequences on the freedom of the individual of New Labour road pricing and conjoined spy in the cab proposals (which will also obviously potentially track your speed everywhere) are even more frightening and disturbing. The only thing can you say is that at least those proposals are not hidden and are in the public domain and being discussed long before they may be implemented.

The single step that would vastly increase the number of signatures is for Martin Lewis to give the petition star billing in his weekly MSE emailing and/or to put a similar banner message to sign the petition on his website.

But I don't like this petition because it does not criticise Ofcom for their failure to act and demand that Ofcom takes action. And I consider that Ofcom and their equally incompetent predecessor OFTEL are the primary guilty parties over this issue.

~ Edited by Dave: Link on quote box updated

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« Last Edit: Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 5:32pm by Dave »

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Keith

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Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition
Reply #48 - Feb 1^st, 2007 at 12:02pm

NGM Ghost: I agree with you re the petition. You may be surprised by this as I have been promoting the petition, but my view was that something was better than nothing.

You suggested your own petition and got support for it here. Why not. You know your stuff so it would be much better. You could even post a suggested draft petition here for comments first. Might be a good idea to leave until after 4 April when the current petition expires.

Asking Martin to put up on his site is a great idea if he will. Who can ask him? I assume some of you guys here have good contacts with him.

I have to say I'm dreading the government reply to the petition when it finishes. I bet they pass the buck to Ofcom.

Re the road toll petition:. It is clear that the petitions that are moving are due to web site links but 5000 - 10000 a day!!!!!! 627,000 of the adult car owning population with access to the web who can actually be bothered. The next highest petition has a mere 605,000 less signatures. Looks very dodgy.

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wacs

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Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition
Reply #49 - Feb 1^st, 2007 at 9:03pm

Quote:

Re the road toll petition:. It is clear that the petitions that are moving are due to web site links but 5000 - 10000 a day!!!!!! 627,000 of the adult car owning population with access to the web who can actually be bothered. The next highest petition has a mere 605,000 less signatures. Looks very dodgy.

It's probably that someone marketed a very effective campaign. Many individuals and businesses rely on cars as part of their work. Many more people who don't even drive rely on those that do. Not everyone in the UK has access to public transport. Even more are probably more concerned by the 'privacy' angle of having their car journeys across the UK monitored.

Edited to add: Just noticed NGMs ghost has already covered most of these points!

NGMsGhost wrote on Feb 1^st, 2007 at 10:39am:

The single step that would vastly increase the number of signatures is for Martin Lewis to give the petition star billing in his weekly MSE emailing and/or to put a similar banner message to sign the petition on his website.

And this I agree with

~ Edited by Dave: Link on quote box updated

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« Last Edit: Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 5:34pm by Dave »

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gdh82 Full Member Offline Posts: 226	Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition Reply #50 - Feb 1^st, 2007 at 9:53pm Keith wrote on Feb 1^st, 2007 at 9:42am: Its hit 1000. 1315 and counting... ~ Edited by Dave: Link on quote box updated
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wacs

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Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition
Reply #51 - Feb 1^st, 2007 at 10:00pm

Keith wrote on Feb 1^st, 2007 at 12:02pm:

I have to say I'm dreading the government reply to the petition when it finishes. I bet they pass the buck to Ofcom.

In regards to 0870, I don't think it really matters what their response is, because whatever emphasis is put on (any number of petitions relating to) how the 0870 issue should be resolved, all angles will be looked at; they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't. My belief is in the principle of raising the profile of this issue, so that the Government knows it is not going to go away.

~ Edited by Dave: Link on quote box updated

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« Last Edit: Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 5:34pm by Dave »

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wacs

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Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition
Reply #52 - Feb 1^st, 2007 at 10:08pm

Regarding Ofcom, and their alleged lack of accountability, (the details of which I am not familiar), I would find it helpful to see a separate sticky so that these issues can be discussed and explained for those who don't know.

If a petition were drawn from this I would hope to see a question that addressed specific things that Ofcom have done and what the undersigned would like to see happen to resolve them. E.g. "I, the undersigned petition that a public enquiry be made into the issue surrounding Ofcom's...[insert]", or something like that.

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« Last Edit: Feb 1^st, 2007 at 10:12pm by wacs »

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wacs Newbie Offline Posts: 41	Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition Reply #53 - Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 2:43pm Now 1731, and on page 1
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Dave

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Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition
Reply #54 - Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 5:39pm

We need to consider what we put in a new petition. The mess that will be 0870 being cheaper than 0844/0845/0871 is really worth noting. In addition, the lack of pricing information and the lack of action when companies lie about 0845 being "local rate" etc. It is also easily understood by the public. We don't want to write it in such a way that no-one understands and they find it 'boring'.

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NGMsGhost

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Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition
Reply #55 - Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 6:07pm

Dave wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 5:39pm:

We need to consider what we put in a new petition. The mess that will be 0870 being cheaper than 0844/0845/0871 is really worth noting. In addition, the lack of pricing information and the lack of action when companies lie about 0845 being "local rate" etc. It is also easily understood by the public. We don't want to write it in such a way that no-one understands and they find it 'boring'.

I still find it utterly staggering that neither Panorama or Dispatches have been prepared to run a program on the 084/7 industry when it is a ripoff costing consumers over a billion pounds a year. They could also wrap it up with a general review of the total incompetence of Ofcom and why deregulation of BT call prices and line rental has seen line rental and minimum call cost charges rise across the industry instead of fall. Shocked

They could also review the quite scandalous cost of Ofcom and its obscenely overpaid and blatantly anti consumer directors who cost as much as the American FCC to run in total for a population only one fifth the size of the USA. Angry

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bbb_uk

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Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition
Reply #56 - Feb 4^th, 2007 at 7:15pm

I do think another petition is needed but don't think it should be done just yet.

Any new petiton should be for something more realistic in our goal as anything else would just be ignored just as the current petition will be ignored simply because unfortunately it isn't clear whether it's referring to government funded organisations or all companies. The latter will NEVER happen in the forseeable future.

I believe that once the new 03x range is available and we have more of an idea of any costs involved in having a 03x number that we then consider another petition(s) further.

I believe specifically asking that all government funded departments/services (inc surgeries and schools) should move to the 03x range if they really need the facilities that is available via NGN numbers otherwise geographicals (using just a geographical would be cheaper to maintain/run if they didn't need the extra services offered by NGNs)

I also think having a petition that Ofcom should do more to ensure that the local/national lie is stopped and informing consumers that 084/087 carry a premium due to revenue share that takes place in most cases. With regards to this, I believe this would be fair and honest if all consumers became aware that revenue share happens on 084/087 albeit smaller amounts compared to 09x. In other words they are a lower form of premium rate.

If all consumers became aware that when they call an 084/087, that in most cases the end company/organisation, etc receives a share of the call costs then companies would think twice before using these types of numbers. A perfect example is the BT lost luggage line which went from a revenue generating 0845 (which they admitted) to a freephone number.

As Dave has mentioned, we also have a problem about whether or not people who have gone through the trouble of signing this current petition despite the fact it wont get anywhere, will be bothered to sign again. I do, however, agree that it may attract attention from the press.

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NGMsGhost

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Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition
Reply #57 - Feb 4^th, 2007 at 8:40pm

bbb_uk wrote on Feb 4^th, 2007 at 7:15pm:

With regards to this, I believe this would be fair and honest if all consumers became aware that revenue share happens on 084/087 albeit smaller amounts compared to 09x.

But of course Sean Williams and his other well paid top Ofcom colleagues who are now pushing off elsewhere have seen to it that total confusion will reign because most 0870 numbers will become normal geographic rate in Feb 2008 but 0844 and 0845 will remain poorly regulated and price disclosure uncontrolled revenue share rate while 0871 is premium rate. And that is a message that is almost possible to explain clearly no matter how good you are at advertising and marketing.

But then that was the whole idea wasn't it? The whole idea was to leave a trojan horse that allowed the call centre industry to continue to rip off the great British public. Wink

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bbb_uk Global Moderator Offline Posts: 2,041	Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition Reply #58 - Feb 5^th, 2007 at 6:11pm NGMsGhost wrote on Feb 4^th, 2007 at 8:40pm: But then that was the whole idea wasn't it? The whole idea was to leave a trojan horse that allowed the call centre industry to continue to rip off the great British public. Exactly!
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idb

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Re: SayNoTo0870.com E-Petition
Reply #59 - Feb 5^th, 2007 at 10:25pm

The response to the petition will be somewhat predictable:

"Her Maj's government recognizes the public's concerns regarding 0870 numbering which is why Ofcom, the regulatory authority with a proven record of excellence and impartiality, launced a consultation during 2006 in which stakeholders were solicited for their views. We are pleased to say that, from 2008, call charges to 0870 numbers will, generally, be returned to the same costs incurred when calling a geographic number. We believe that this will address most of the concerns expressed by the petitioners."

Of course this does not address the shambolic mess that is the UK numbering system which encourages following scams:

0870 migration to 0871 and 0844;
0870 'get-out' charge clause;
Misleading descriptions of call charges (local, national, free);
Patientline;
Unsolicited reverse-billed SMS with little or no redress for the unfortunate victim (criminal offences which are sanctioned by ICSTIS);
Fat finger dialling (118866 deliberate scam);
No opt-in for PRS;
070 PNS revenue-generating scam;
DQ liberalization;
The use of premium and revenue-generation numbering by HMG and public bodies;
The use of numbering that precludes internationally-originated calls to essential HMG and public services by British citizens who reside or work overseas;
and possibly many more examples.

Ofcom and ICSTIS are morally bankrupt and techjnically inept organizations that are incapable of serving the general public. Their operating methods belong in a banana republic and not a first-world economic power. They are bisased in favor of the service providers and provide virtually no assistance to the genuine complaint from the public. Sadly, I do not see any change likley, even with a change in government - these scams are simply too engrained within the whole industry for any meaningful change to take place.

What a joke.

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« Last Edit: Feb 5^th, 2007 at 10:29pm by idb »

As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.

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