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0870 vs. 0871 (Read 23,234 times)
lucaltmann
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0870 vs. 0871
Jan 29th, 2007 at 3:57pm
 
Hi

I am trying to get a handle on the difference between the 0870 and 0871 markets. It seems that 0870 is a bigger market but the potential revenues from 0871 are greater, is there any reason for this.

My hypothesis is that the threshold for revenue sharing is quite high often well over 500 minutes a month before the owner of the number sees any returns. Therefore for smaller comapnies 087x is not a revenue genertaing service they just need the enabled software which is run over these numbers like IVR so it makes sense to use 0870 as it charges less to the customer and they will likely get more calls where the consumer knwoledge of the charges exist that is.

Luc
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NGMsGhost
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #1 - Jan 29th, 2007 at 4:05pm
 
lucaltmann wrote on Jan 29th, 2007 at 3:57pm:
My hypothesis is that the threshold for revenue sharing is quite high often well over 500 minutes a month before the owner of the number sees any returns. Therefore for smaller comapnies 087x is not a revenue genertaing service they just need the enabled software which is run over these numbers like IVR so it makes sense to use 0870 as it charges less to the customer and they will likely get more calls where the consumer knwoledge of the charges exist that is.

Luc


If that is all they needed they would surely use a 1p per minute at all times 0844 number or at least an only an 0845 number.

10p per minute at all time 0871 and soon to be premium rate ICSTIS regulated are all about revenue share generation as are marginally cheaper 0870 numbers.  Of course 0870 will be forced to only charge the same as 01 or 02 in a year's time which is why all the aggressive revenue scammers will move on to either 5p per minute at all times totally unregulated 0844 or ICSTIS regulated (but as we know it Jim for 09 regulated ICSTIS numbers) 0871 numbers to keep the revenue share.
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lucaltmann
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #2 - Jan 29th, 2007 at 4:13pm
 
so why use 0870 at all and not 0871?

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NGMsGhost
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #3 - Jan 29th, 2007 at 5:48pm
 
lucaltmann wrote on Jan 29th, 2007 at 4:13pm:
so why use 0870 at all and not 0871?

Because the call cost is higher (especially off peak) than 0870 so the revenue share to the call recipient and/or their telco is consequently much higher. Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2007 at 10:07pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Dave
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #4 - Jan 29th, 2007 at 9:53pm
 
lucaltmann wrote on Jan 29th, 2007 at 3:57pm:
I am trying to get a handle on the difference between the 0870 and 0871 markets. It seems that 0870 is a bigger market but the potential revenues from 0871 are greater, is there any reason for this.

The prefixes 0844 and 0871 were introduced in 1999. 0870 existed before this time, and was originally 0990 when all these numbers were provided by BT. 0990 numbers were migrated to 08705. That may help explain why businesses consider 0870 "fashionable".

Ofcom consultations and associated discussion threads on this forum can be found here. The provide an invaluable background to the internal framework of these numbers. They are, however, extremely long.

From Ofcom consultation NTS: Options for the future:
Quote:
Transit charges

3.53 As noted above, the practice of who pays for transit charges varies according to the number range being called. For 0844 and 0871 calls, the OCP will pay the transit charges; for all other NTS calls, the TCP will pay. Some in the Industry regard this inconsistency as an undesirable anomaly.

3.54 The explanation for the anomaly lies in the fact that, when the 0844 and 0871 number ranges were introduced in 1999, the intention was to solve the problem of revenue uncertainty for TCPs by allowing them to set their termination payments. OCPs were considered responsible for paying the transit payment to avoid the TCP being left with a remaining source of revenue uncertainty in relation to transit payments.

3.55 Some OCPs have refused to carry some 0844/0871 calls (callers get a ‘number unobtainable’ tone or message) because, amongst other reasons, they are reluctant to pay the transit charge. This is one of the factors which has reduced the viability of the 0844/0871 number ranges in the eyes of some CPs and NTS SPs.
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andy9
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #5 - Jan 29th, 2007 at 11:51pm
 
Dave wrote on Jan 29th, 2007 at 9:53pm:
[ 0870 existed before this time, and was originally 0990 when all these numbers were provided by BT. 0990 numbers were migrated to 08705.


and 0541 many of which became 08701, just as 0345 and 0645 became 0845.

I think it was Energis that introduced some of the earliest 0870 numbers, even promoting revenue sharing ideas from the start, possible because of BT's overpriced 8p rate compared to competitors' 3p. That's why businesses went for them so strongly
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lucaltmann
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #6 - Jan 30th, 2007 at 9:27am
 
OK thanks. So do you think the types of businesses who use 0871 differ markedly from those using 0870 and if so why and how about with 0844 and 0845 ?
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #7 - Jan 30th, 2007 at 9:36am
 
lucaltmann wrote on Jan 30th, 2007 at 9:27am:
OK thanks. So do you think the types of businesses who use 0871 differ markedly from those using 0870 and if so why and how about with 0844 and 0845 ?


Look.  Are you writing this stuff for a university paper or what exactly?  It seems as though you never use the telephone or if you do don't pay your own bill or have never bothered to check the rates with your phone company?

Anyone who uses the telephone on a regular basis can see that at present must customer service departments etc are on 0845 and 0870 because of the con until recently supported by BT billing of calling them lo-call/local rate or national rate (for 0845 and 0870 respectively).

Hardly anyone of note currently uses 0871 apart from Easyjet and Ryanair who don't want to hear from their customers because it is 10p per minute at all times.  Most corporates seems to use 0870 for customer service lines. Most government departments and charities use 0845.  0844 is mainly used for dial up internet in place of 0845 but also by a scammer like NEG for doctors surgeries after they were banned from using 0870.  0844 and 0871 are also used by cheap calls dial thru services like www.dialaround.co.uk

I don't wish to sound unhelpful but read the FAQs and previous posts and use the Search engine on the forum at its all there.  I can't see why you are asking these questions when you seem to have so little interest in the phone system to begin with that you have never worked out who uses what kind of numbers.  If you made phone calls regulalry it  would be obvious to you.
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lucaltmann
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #8 - Jan 30th, 2007 at 3:22pm
 
I just never have the need to call 08xx numbers



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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #9 - Jan 30th, 2007 at 7:53pm
 
lucaltmann wrote on Jan 30th, 2007 at 3:22pm:
I just never have the need to call 08xx numbers

Clearly someone who doesn't pay their own utility bills or use telephone banking or use NHS Direct or have to phone their Doctor's surgery or have to enquire about the time of a train or ..........

You must be Royalty!

Try some of 0800 numbers from time to time, Sir.  They're fun.

Don't do it using your own mobile though.  That's expensive.
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« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2007 at 7:56pm by sergeant121 »  

How can you tell when a lawyer's lying?  His (or her) lips move.
 
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NGMsGhost
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #10 - Jan 30th, 2007 at 8:12pm
 
lucaltmann wrote on Jan 30th, 2007 at 3:22pm:
I just never have the need to call 08xx numbers


I think you must be the managing director of a company with a large 0870 call centre puzzling at why your company receives so many abusive letters regarding these numbers.

It seems you have a wife and a secretary to make all of life's mundane practical arrangements as this can be the only possible reason why you never have to call such numbers yourself.  Either that or you do not live in the UK at all.

Or pehaps you are a director of Ofcom and make all these personal calls on an Ofcom mobile and so never have to pay the bill?. Wink
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lucaltmann
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #11 - Jan 31st, 2007 at 9:18am
 
If you want to know Im  a telecoms consultant. Google my name 'Luc Altmann' and ignore the first two which isn't me. Im doing some background research basically.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #12 - Jan 31st, 2007 at 9:51am
 
lucaltmann wrote on Jan 31st, 2007 at 9:18am:
If you want to know Im  a telecoms consultant. Google my name 'Luc Altmann' and ignore the first two which isn't me. Im doing some background research basically.


I find it singularly ironic that someone who hires themself out as a so called telecoms consultant apparently knows so little about the UK's current highly distorted telecoms tariff structure or even what the price difference is between an 0870 and 0871 number or how the two are differently used.  Why do people become consultants in something which they clearly have zero personal interest in or experience of - just to earn money by any means of course like the 084/7 call centre scammers?  Surely its much better to become a consultant in something which you have a personal passion about.

You are clearly a lazy consultant since instead of properly using Google to research and read around the subject you expect people here to give you a few snappy answers for your report to a very long running saga of misselling, lies and deceit.

Calls to 01/02 numbers and all EU equivalent fixed line numbers from a BT landline can be had for as £4.33 a month in unlimited quantity on an 18 month contract with www.euphony.co.uk. ; 084/7 calls are excluded from these packages and can easily cost someone based at home another £50 to £60 per month if called with impunity (0871 numbers cost £6 per hour to call at all times so not exactly difficult to run up this kind of cost is it).  Also most mobile operators exclude 084/7 numbers from their bundled minutes on contracts and some like TMobile and Vodafone charge highly penal rates for calling them on Pay As You Go tariffs (in TMobile's case within the UK and in Vodafone's when calling from overseas).  Yet these are normal company numbers and not numbers providing a special service of any kind.

If you don't actually have a clue on this subject and are prepared to make it obvious that you don't as you have done then I suggest you check out some of my responses to previous Ofcom and ICSTIS consultations on this issue:-

For instance:-

www.icstis.org.uk/pdfs_consult/0871JShersby.pdf

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/responses/sz/shersby.pdf

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/ntsoptions/Responses/jshersby.pdf

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/ocp/responses/shersby.pdf

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/ntsctmr/resntcctr/shersby.pdf

Or take off the shersby bit at the end of those URLs to see a list of all responses to these consultations.

I also don't believe you never call these numbers.  But I do believe you are someone who has a phone bill that someone else pays for you so you have never noticed that these numbers had a different cost to call from numbers that start 01 or 02.
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« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2007 at 9:54am by NGMsGhost »  

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lucaltmann
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #13 - Jan 31st, 2007 at 9:58am
 
LMAO.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Im getting opnion from various sources thanks and the ones at saynoto0870 have been very interesting and informed. I am aware of the tariff structure and the consultations.

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NGMsGhost
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Re: 0870 vs. 0871
Reply #14 - Jan 31st, 2007 at 9:59am
 
So this would be your firm and one of your articles:-

http://www.analysys.com/default_acl.asp?mode=article&ileftarticle=1770

So a company paid mobile phone and all calls to 084/7 numbers on that phone or from your office desk landline phone then it would seem? In other words you never pay the bill Wink Roll Eyes

Ironic isn't it that people come consultants in a subject on which they show total ignorance.
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« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2007 at 10:00am by NGMsGhost »  

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