So now Ed Richards describes all 08 numbers as being "higher rate" and to be avoided.

So while it is good to finally have such a statement from the CEO of Ofcom that 084/7 numbers are to be avoided by consumers how does he explain the fact that the 08 code also contains 0800 and 0800 numbers which are free of charge and that 0870 numbers will be converted to costing only the geographic rate like the 03 range but 0845 numbers will still be charged at a higher hidden premium rate even though they are stil marketed by many as local rate.  And what about 0871 numbers which are now to be ICSTIS controlled but sound just like 0870 numbers which will now be charged at geographic call prices.

Congratulations Ofcom for allowing the Police, Inland Revenue and many others to go on using 0845 by default due to the contractual agreements they have become locked into and for forcing all these organisations to get a new number if they want to do the right thing.

The National Telephone Number Plan on the 08 range is now completely bankrupt and utterly incomprehensible thanks to the total and utter ineptitude of OfCoN  Also 03 numbers will not be effective due to companies having to make the effort to change over to them.  03 would only have worked if all revenue sharing numbers on 03 had been made illegal and withdrawn from service and the companies concerned made to get 03 numbers instead.

Dave wrote on Feb 13^th, 2007 at 1:49pm:


Unfortunately Ofcom seems to believe that lengthiness usually equates to thoroughness, whereas all it actually does is to make responding to their consultations inaccessible to the ordinary citizen consumer and only possible for bodies will full time paid members of staff to trawl through these impenetrable and excessively wordy documents.

I suggest that everyone here responds using it as an opportunity to make the point that it is not acceptable for companies using 0845 numbers to be forced to change them over to a new 03 number and that Ofcom must act to make 0845 calls charged at geographic rates on 1st Feb 2008 in the same way as 0870.  Also Ofcom must not allow any new 0845 or 0870 numbers to be issued so that in time everything will head towards 03.

We also need to comment that it is not acceptable for 0844 numbers to not be subjected to any rules on price disclosure and that these numbers must be brought under the same ICSTIS control regime as 0871, even if it is a somewhat lighter touch control ICSTIS regime than hitherto.  There is still time to force the inclusion of 0844 numbers as ICSTIS has not even publised its proposals on 0871, yet which suggests a lot of internal arguments going on between ICSTIS, Ofcom and the NTS call centre industry.

=CM= wrote on Feb 13^th, 2007 at 2:05pm:


Ah yes a very good point.

Any responses to the Ofcom consultation must demand that 0800 numbers also cannot be charged at above geograpic 01, 02 rates for calls from mobiles.  Otherwise we will be left with crazy situation of 0800 numbers costing far more from a mobile than geographically priced 03 prefixed calls.

Dave wrote on Feb 13^th, 2007 at 2:11pm:


Yes precisely.  The fact that more people will learn they are being ripped off over 084/7 calls was obviously the only respect in which the cost of it was too expensive for the telecoms companies.  The fact that a low margin company like www.18185.co.uk can already provide this service surely tells us that there is no cost in actually providing the free call price announcement.

I would have the announcement of the price per minute and for connection compulsorily turned on for all lines unless people decided to turn it off for any reason (i.e they would have to opt out).

I suspect Ed Richards realises that Stephen Carter run Ofcom made a huge mistake on this issue so I wonder if there is any we can persuade Ofcom to force 0845 numbers to be changed to geographic pricing on 1st Feb 2008.  There is still time for this in my opinion.

Dave wrote on Feb 13^th, 2007 at 2:43pm:


Pragmatically I believe the most practically acceptable and yet also ethically sound solution would be as follows:-

1. No new 084 or 087 numbers issued after 1st Feb 2008

2. All 0845 and 0870 move to geographic rate on 1st Feb 2008.  One year transition period after which their number must be changed to one in the 03 number range allowing time for adequate publicity and new leaflet printing.

3. 0844 and 0871 placed under ICSTIS control on 1st Feb 2008.  One year transition period after which their number must be changed to 09 and full ICSTIS rules applied.  Call queues should be limited to no more than 3 minutes on 09 numbers costing under 15p per minute.  Call queues should be limited to no more than 15 seconds on 09 numbers costing 15p per minute or above.

Therefore after 1st Feb 2009 all numbers charged at geographic rates would be on 01, 02 or 03.  All numbers charged at premium rate on 09 and all Freephone numbers on 08.  Simple and comprehensible and stopping all scamming.

Also mobile phones should be forced to connect numbers to agreed legitimate 0800 numbers from government information services, breakdown services etc free of charge.  Other 0800 numbers should be able to be charged at the current over minutes charge for bundled minutes packages but the standard geographic 01/02 charge on Pay As You Go mobiles.  If an 0800 number wants people to call it for free they must sign a declaration they are not a call routing service and be liable for the loss of revenue to mobile companies if they are proven to be such a service subsequently.  This would allow 0800 to be free of charge on a mobile for legitimate 0800 uses.  There are underlying business reasons why expecting mobile customers to be able to route all their calls via other call routing services using an 0800 number is not realistic.

Barbara,

I'm glad to hear you agree with my suggestions, although I fear that telco friendly Ofcom will of course not do this because although what I have suggested is logical it is not profitable for their telco chums.

Taking the 09 calls access issue I certainly take the view that these calls should be barred by default on every single phone line and require a PIN number to access them each time.  And then in multi person housholds there could be a PIN number for each person that would identify that caller on the phone bill.  I t would be up the line subscriber to decide if they wanted to have more PIN numbers issued giving 09 access to other household members.  The current situation where anyone in the house can call numbers costing up to £1.50 per minute is like a form of blank cheque with no control by the account holder.

Unfortunately I fear this will not happen as Ofcom know that in the long run all phone calls will be made by voip using a computer like devices.  However one upside of voip telephony is that as all regular calls will be covered in your monthly broadband subscription every voip call that does not should require to make a separate payment for it by credit card or PayPal etc.  However I have fear that the forces of commercial banditry may still allow voip connections to exist which do involve a payment to the end user but where the fee for that call does not have to be paid separately each time but is simply added on to the monthly bill to your ISP.  So once again a hidden charge although what the excuse would be for not having technology to clearly agree to the extra charge each time beforehand i cannot begin to imagine.

Keith wrote on Feb 13^th, 2007 at 4:26pm:


Well if we had  my way I would have just banned all 084/7 numbers on 2 months notice about 8 years ago  before they ever became a problem but I was trying to propose something that Ofcom with its, "we must not intervene or regulate in a manner that is disproprotionate to business profitability" would go for.