Hello All 

I am a retailer and am always very frstrated by companies using NGN's that cost me £££££££'s

I recently had a large problem with Barclaycard Merchant Services and was forced to use their premium rate 08706060060 number for several calls.

I ended up getting a reasonable refund for the calls after complaining bitterly at the cost. The girl informed me that it won't be a problem for me in the future because they are in the process of changing all their 0870 numbers - yippee I thought.

Big Mistake

They are all going to be 0844 now she said.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!

idb wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2007 at 10:53pm:


I e-mailed them yesterday, pointing out the misleading description of this number, and lo and behold they have removed the reference to "national rate".

At least some people listen, even though they did not actually reply to me.

Why would anybody canvas call a BMW dealership? I'm sure as soon as they heard "Hello, BMW blah blah blah" they would be "sorry, wrong number". And are you willing to see if BMW will refund you the money from your call? Hardly likely I think.

simond001 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 11:29am:

Yes, but this does not mean it has to be 0871 and it does not mean, if it is 0871, that it has to be at 10p/min. You can receive calls on 0844/5 numbers for no charge and it costs callers less than 10p/min, although more than 01/02 numbers. Did the nice salesman from the telephone company not explain this to you? 

Dave wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 4:41pm:


I have learnt in the one day i have been on this forum, (and only then because one of your esteemed member decided to lie about me and misrepresent me on it) that reality has no place here. In response to your pathetically sarcastic mail above i will explain.

A 0871 number can cost between 6ppm and 10ppm depending on the number range used, and the carrier can then apply to have the range rerated at a higher or lower rate. The benefit of 0871 numbers (and 0844 numbers) is that the cost of the call is the same 24/7. This means that any rebates that are paid can be applied to all calls, not just calls between 8am and 6pm (the working day as defined by BT).

There is a cost involved in generating and managing NGN numbers, nothing in life is free. That may be a suprise to you but it is a reality.  It also needs to be considered that these numbers have a very short life, and need to be constantly re terminated as adverts change.

I also find it interesting that you have highlighted the 0871 numbers that are used in car ads, but not the 070 numbers that are also used. Either this shows a lack of understanding with the pricing structure of NGN's or you are supporting the more expensive, but less lambasted services.

As a little lesson i will advise that the 070 ranges cost up to 50ppm, and some cost 50p per connection. Suddenly the 0871 at 10p or less looks like value for money.

I welcome some of the cost saving benefits that sites like moneysaver.com promote, where they are a true value for consumers, and the number search side of this website (that i have used previously and promoted to my clients). I however feel that the bigotted attitude shown against anybody who tries to justify NGN's devalues the benefits that this site offers. It is a shame that you let down what is on the whole a valuable site.

If anybody would like to discuss, please mail me. I do not hide behind a mask, my name is available to anyone who has the manners to use their own. I feel however that as with my offer to NGM'sghost, this will not happen as those that shout loudest, do it from the mask of the internet.


S J Simmons

simond001 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 5:13pm:

This "benefit" is the service provider's (receiving party's) and not the callers.

The reason for Say No To 0870 being is because the price of a call to a UK landline should be just that. Anything above this is a premium, and that is going by the dictionary definition of the word. This means that the price of a telephone call connecting party A to party B is for just that.

Putting a revenue-sharing NGN in between the caller and receiver is like charging the caller for the receiver's telephone system. This cost should be met by the receiver and this is what we stand for on here.

There is a free market with telecoms. In this case, the person/party making the choice is the call receiver, but this is paid for by the caller! Therefore, there is nothing driving down the price of the service. Indeed, it's not in a NGN provider's interest to reduce the amount the caller pays, but rather, the opposite is true. Which is most probably the reason most 0871s and 0844s are at the highest pricing point permissible.

simond001 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 5:13pm:

I didn't ever say that telcos should provide such services (statistics, call routing etc) for free. But as I said, the cost should be met by the receiving party, else it is, by definition, a premium number.

simond001 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 5:13pm:

That's a problem for marketing people. The cost of changing numbers is a marketing expense and is in no way connected to the provision of telecommunications.

simond001 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 5:13pm:

The members of this website stand for price transparency. The technical benefits of NTS are not in doubt and that's where 03 numbers come in.

However, the current use of 084/087 numbers has been built on misleading descriptions like 0845 being "local rate". To this day, telcos market these numbers to companies using these terms and those service providers incorrectly identify how much their customers pay.

Coming out with the truth that this is not the case is like shutting the stable after the horse has bolted.

trickyd wrote on Aug 25^th, 2007 at 8:10am:


Surely they should be mentioned in a Thumbs Up to Companies Who Have Got The Message thread.

Hall of Shame is confined to those adopting 084/7 numbers for the first time or switching from 0870 to 0871.

PC World (unsurprisingly) have also changed to an 0844 number (in the same range as Currys).