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NTS Focus Group Minutes - Feb 22, 2007 (Read 7,782 times)
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NTS Focus Group Minutes - Feb 22, 2007
Apr 7th, 2007 at 2:22am
 
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/groups/nts_focus/notes/nts22feb07

NTS Focus Group - 22nd February 2007 - 2.15 pm Ofcom


Agenda item (1) - Introductions
Attendance:
Andrew Wileman
Virgin Media (Chair)

Rob Day
BT

Kath Embleton
BT

Justin Hornby
Cable & Wireless

Laurent Pariat
Cable & Wireless

Becky Hewlett
Cable & Wireless

Martin Tredwell
Call Sciences

Andrew Monk
Carphone Warehouse

Toby Higho
Easynet

Will Goodall
Flextel

Tom Cairns
Gamma

Andy Martin
IV Response

Nancy Saunders
Kingston Communications

Geoff Brighton
Ofcom

Gareth Davies
Ofcom

Nic Green
Ofcom

Clive Hillier
Ofcom

Neil Buckley
Ofcom

Dirmuid Jennings
Reality Telecom

Colin Scott
Thus

Michael Barford
Tiscali


Agenda Item (2): Review of minutes of previous meeting
No comments/concerns were raised. It was therefore agreed that the minutes could be published on the Ofcom website.

Agenda (3): Update/progress report on the current 'live' NTS related consultations/investigations: (Ofcom/All)
Sexual Entertainment Services consultation
Geoff Brighton advised that Ofcom intended to publish a Statement on the 8 th March.

Review of Regulation of Premium Rate Services
Clive Hillier advised that the review remained ongoing. Ofcom will provide an update in due course.

NCCN 500 investigation/NTS call termination market review
Gareth Davies said that the NCCN 500 investigation was in the final stages of legal review. Ofcom intended to publish its findings to the specific parties to the dispute on either the 12 th or 19 th of March.

The call termination market review remains on hold, pending the outcome of the NCCN 500 investigation.

ICSTIS progress re. Governance of 0871
Clive Hillier confirmed that the ICSTIS consultation document was due to be published in March.

General Condition 14 Enforcement Programme
Clive Hillier advised that the Ofcom investigation was continuing.

BT POLO Dispute (1 st October 2006 OCCNs)

Attendees were advised that BT’s dispute referral had been resubmitted and subsequently accepted by Ofcom. Investigation is underway, with the case being lead by Nick Morris.

Agenda (4): Update on arrangements for call termination payments under new 0870 regime
Andrew Wileman provided a recap on the progress of the NTSFG sub group that had been looking at the options for interconnect charging under the future 0870 regime. Andrew said that despite the group investing a significant amount of time on the issue, and reaching a broad consensus on an overall framework, it was unlikely that CPs would agree on the finer detail. This diversity of views was rooted in historical contentions with the NTS regime and as such resolution was unlikely without regulatory intervention. Andrew added that the sub group members did not want a dispute to arise – and had tried very hard to avoid the need for regulatory intervention. However, the majority of attendees expected that such a situation would prevail. At the previous NTSFG meeting Ofcom had been asked to assess whether it could offer any advice/provide a steer on the principal points of contention, in the hope of reducing the chance of a dispute arising. Gareth Davies said that while Ofcom supported the industry's desire to avoid an interconnection dispute, it was felt that it would be unwise to give any guidance without more detailed consideration of the new 0870 termination arrangements, such as would be undertaken in the context of a dispute. Any without-prejudice guidance that might be provided at this stage may be subject to change upon more detailed consideration of all the factors involved. There would therefore be a risk that it may prove to be unhelpful or counterproductive (see also update on AP Jan07_01 below).

Andy Martin asked when BT was planning to issue OCCNs for the new 0870 charges. Rob Day said that BT intended to issue pricing letters in mid-April 2007. Justin Hornby asked if they could be issued earlier. Rob said that he didn’t think that there was scope to significantly expedite the process, given the amount of work involved in their creation. Rob added that BT needed to have its pricing offer formally signed off before issuing pricing letters. He anticipated that this would occur at the March BT pricing board and (assuming that it was successful) the earliest that BT would be able to issue pricing letters would be early to mid April.

Colin Scott asked if Ofcom would accept a dispute referral prior to any pricing letters being issued. Geoff Brighton said that he believed this would be possible, however referees would need to ensure that they could prove that all potential avenues for resolution had been pursued.

Several attendees suggested that it would be prudent to prepare dispute referrals in advance of pricing letter receipt. Kath Embleton said that BT could submit a referral to Ofcom very soon after receipt of a rejection notice if the preparatory work had been substantially completed in advance.

...
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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Feb 22, 2007
Reply #1 - Apr 7th, 2007 at 2:22am
 
...

Will Goodall informed attendees that he had written to Ofcom seeking answers to 5 key questions (the letter had been distributed to NTSFG attendees in advance of the meeting). Critical among these was the question of whether Flextel (and other TCPs) could set its own termination rates for 0870 under the new arrangements. Gareth Davies said that 0870 termination rates were subject to commercial negotiation. He added that Flextel can propose any rate that it chooses – and Ofcom would not get involved unless a dispute arose. Will asked that Ofcom formally respond to the questions in the letter.

New Action Feb07_00: Ofcom to confirm its response made at the meeting in writing to Flextel.

Will asked if BT would be applying pre-call announcements to 0870 calls. Kath Embleton said that she thought this was unlikely, but agreed to confirm. Will asked how Flextel would be free to set its own termination rates if this was the case. Kath said that it would be the subject of commercial negotiation.

New Action Feb07_01: BT to confirm if it will be applying pre-call announcements to 0870 calls post 1 st February 2008.

Andy Martin said that Mobile CPs were an important factor in the considerations around many of the current NTS issues (including 0870, 03 etc.) and as such they should attend the NTSFG. Will Goodall added that impact assessments, policy debates etc could not function correctly if all aspects of the industry were not represented.

Andy Martin suggested that it might be prudent for selected NTSFG representatives to attend the Mobile Broadband Group, with a view to promoting the work of the NTSFG and encouraging attendance from the Mobile community. Andrew Wileman agreed to pursue this with the chair of that forum (see also update on AP Jan07_06 below).

New Action Feb07_02: Andrew Wileman to discuss attendance of selected NTSFG representatives at the Mobile Broadband Group with Hamish MacLeod.

Agenda Item (5) – Implementation of the 03 Range/’Raising Confidence in Telephone Numbers’ Publication (Ofcom/All)
Neil Buckley and Nic Green joined the meeting to answer questions on the recently published ‘Raising Confidence in Telephone Numbers’ publication (with particular focus on the 03 range).

Clarity was sought around the provisions for revenue sharing on the 0870, 03 and 07 number ranges. Nic Green said that revenue sharing on 0870 ranges would not be specifically prohibited from 1 st Feb 2008, however the reforms were intended to remove the regulatory underpinning for it (and in reality, the level of outpayment would likely dictate that it was not possible). Nic confirmed that revenue sharing was prohibited on both the 03 and 07 ranges.

Colin Scott asked if Ofcom could provide guidance on 03 termination rates. Gareth Davies said that this was not thought possible, for the same reasons that it did not feel able to provide guidance on 0870 termination rates at this stage (see update to AP Jan07_01 below).

Nancy Saunders asked when BT would be issuing pricing letters/OCCNs for the 03 range. Rob Day said that BT was considering the issues/options but believed that there was currently no trigger to do so. No 03 ranges had been allocated and no CPS had asked for 03 ranges to be provisioned on the BT network. Kath Embleton said that in the normal course of events, CPs would need to request 03 data build/DMA work, BT would then issue a pricing letter and a dispute (if appropriate) would subsequently occur. Kath added that from a pricing/data build perspective, in the absence of any alternative agreed or directed approach, BT would likely follow the process used for implementing the 05 range.

Tom Cairns asked when pricing notifications for BT 03 number ranges would be issued. Rob Day said that this was not known.

Nancy Saunders sought clarity around the provisions for allocation of 03 number ranges where a CP held a parallel number block within the 084/087 ranges. Nic Green confirmed that parallel blocks within the 03 range would be reserved for the relevant CPs for six months, after which 3 rd parties could apply for the ranges. Nancy observed that problems could arise if a given CP had been allocated a 1k block from within a 10k block that another CP owned. Nic said that CPs were free to negotiate, regardless of the 6 month window. Several attendees felt that the duration of the reservation window was too long. Nic said that this could potentially be reviewed if there was significant appetite to amend. Attendees were asked to consider whether a shorter timescale would be acceptable.

New Action Feb07_03: Attendees to consider if the duration of the 03 parallel block reservation window should be reduced and feed back to the chair.

...
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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Feb 22, 2007
Reply #2 - Apr 7th, 2007 at 2:23am
 
...

Several attendees raised concerns that they could not migrate existing services to 03/open new services without the necessary interconnect arrangements & charging protocols being agreed and in place. Nic Green asked what progress had been made with industry discussions on 03 interconnect and charging arrangements. Andrew Wileman said that these discussions had been included in the work of the 0870 charging workshop – and the same contentions had arisen. Colin Scott said that the workshop had put significant effort into reaching a solution for both 03 and 0870, but legacy diverging views had meant that both situations were unlikely to be resolved without regulatory intervention.

Given that CPs had no view of an implementation timetable for 03, it had not been possible to ‘plan backwards’ as had been the case with the 0870 implementation timetable. Colin added that if interconnect arrangements/charges were not agreed and in place, a potential situation could occur in which the implementation of 03 was effectively frozen for all CPs other than BT. A number of attendees shared this concern and it was suggested that such a scenario could constitute a competition issue.

Colin said that CPs effectively had two choices. The first was to agree to unpalatable commercial terms and launch 03 services. The second was to dispute pricing letters (and hence not open/launch 03 codes) thereby losing competitive advantage to BT (and possibly other CPs).

Discussion turned to the process for raising a dispute. Colin said that CPs could submit a dispute to Ofcom, but would need to have a number range allocated. In order to expedite the process, CPs could in theory issue an OCCN, but BT would require an SIA Schedule to be in place against which it could be issued – and to create a Schedule would require the submission of an SOR to BT.

Laurent Pariat asked if BT could provide indicative contractual terms for an 03 service. Kath Embleton said that BT did not have anything to offer at the present time, but agreed to consider what such terms might look like.

New Action Feb07_04: BT to provide an indication of the form of contractual terms for 03 services.

Colin Scott asked if Ofcom had any remedy or solution to the situation. Nic said that Ofcom could not do anything in the absence of a formal dispute.

Andy Martin asked if there was anything that Ofcom could do to ensure that 03 was universally available. Neil Buckley said that under the current regulations, there was no absolute legal obligation on CPs to open the code. However, Ofcom would be doing all that it could to ensure that universal access was available. Neil added that Ofcom intended to consult on the prospect of obliging CPs to open all number ranges on their networks.

Kath Embleton said that BT was in the same position as the rest of industry as it would require other CPs to open BT ranges on their networks.

Martin Tredwell asked if there was any indication of the level of availability from mobile networks. Neil Buckley said that Ofcom hoped that numbers would be opened on a business as usual basis.

Attendees concerns & considerations around the implementation of the 03 range were broadly summarised as follows:

Commercials are yet to be agreed
Breadth of access to 03 numbers is unclear
BT could effectively benefit from a competitive advantage (by opening number ranges/launching services while other CPS remain in dispute)
If a CP decided to sign up to (unpalatable) 03 prices in order to facilitate service launch, but wanted to dispute the charging arrangements, how could this be achieved?

Neil Buckley said that Ofcom would consider the concerns.

New Action Feb07_05: Ofcom to review the concerns around 03 implementation and consider potential remedies to the situation.

Several attendees suggested that service launch in general should be prohibited until interconnect/charging arrangements were agreed and/or any dispute had been resolved. Andrew Wileman said that a number of CPs were in the process of writing to Ofcom requesting that the implementation timetable and procedure for 03 and 0870 be revisited. It was anticipated that this representation would be submitted to Ofcom within the next week. (Post meeting update: letter sent to Ofcom by Cable & Wireless on behalf of a number of CPs on 1 st March).

...
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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Feb 22, 2007
Reply #3 - Apr 7th, 2007 at 2:24am
 
...

Agenda item (6) – Review of remaining outstanding actions
Action Aug06_09 : Porting differential issue to be added to the agenda of the first NTSFG meeting of 2007. Ongoing – Andrew Wileman said that the issue had not been added to the February agenda due to the breadth of topics already included and the potential linkage with the NCCN 500 investigation. The issue would remain on the outstanding actions list and would be included as an agenda item at a future date.

Action Aug06_10 : Andrew Wileman to confirm the position of the NTSFG in respect of SNEN discussions to the chair of the Telecom Advisory Group. Discharged – Andrew confirmed that he had clarified the remit of the NTSFG to the chairman of the TAG and that as such the former would not be considering the SNEN. Attendees were informed that subsequent roll-out of the SNEN had been delayed.

Action Nov06_03 : Ofcom to confirm if the use of 0871 as a presentation number will be prohibited once covered by ICSTIS’ jurisdiction. Ongoing – Clive Hillier said that further consideration was needed.

Action Jan07_01 : Ofcom to consider the 4 points of contention culminating from the 0870 charging workshop with a view to offering advice or guidance that could obviate the need for a dispute. Discharged – See below note from Clive Hillier, as distributed to attendees in advance of the meeting:

It is clear from the discussions to date, there is a significant divergence of views and therefore a distinct possibility of a dispute. We must therefore consider our response in the expectation that Ofcom may be required to resolve a dispute.

Whilst we fully support the industry's desire to avoid an interconnection dispute, these issues are complex and interrelated. We feel it would be unwise for us to give any guidance without more detailed consideration of the new 0870 termination arrangements, such as would be undertaken in the context of a dispute. Any, without-prejudice guidance that we might give at this stage, may be subject to change upon more detailed consideration of all the factors involved and there would be a risk that it may prove to be unhelpful or counterproductive.

Action Jan07_02: Any requirements for specific issues to be addressed in the 03 application/allocation guidance to be communicated to Ofcom through the chair. Discharged – Andrew Wileman confirmed that no issues had been raised via the chair.

Action Jan07_03: Andy Martin to document his concerns with the 0870 implementation timetable and send to Ofcom for consideration. Document also to be passed to the chair for distribution to NTSFG attendees. Discharged – Document had been distributed to NTSFG attendees.

Action Jan07_04: Ofcom to consider the request for an extension to the 0870 implementation timetable. Ongoing – See update on AP Jan07_05 below.

Action Jan07_05: Attendees to consider Andy Martin’s request for an extension to the implementation timetable for the 0870 reforms and indicate their support or otherwise to the chair. Chair to then forward a summary to Ofcom. Discharged – A letter on behalf of a number of CPs had been submitted to Ofcom by C&W on 1 st March.

Action Jan07_06: Andrew Wileman to contact the chair of the Mobile Broadband Group with a view to seeking representation from the mobile community at the NTSFG. Ongoing – Andrew confirmed that contact had been made. Additional discussion was needed (see also new AP Feb07_02…)

Action Jan07_07: Rob Day to confirm any new treatment of 0871 in respect of BT barring levels. Discharged – See below response from Rob Day as submitted to attendees in advance of the meeting:

Ofcom's NTS: Way Forward Statement of April 2006 made it clear that it intends to extend the regulatory framework for PRS to include 0871 numbers, with a view to improving price transparency and to provide an appropriate level of consumer protection.

Until such time as ICSTIS has carried out its planned consultation on 0871, BT is not in a position to commit regarding 0871 classification. However, since it is not anticipated that the ICSTIS guidelines will affect the price of calls to 0871, BT currently has no plans to change the call barring option on 0871 which currently falls within BT option 2 of the call barring product.  This includes barring of national, international and calls to mobiles.

...
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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Feb 22, 2007
Reply #4 - Apr 7th, 2007 at 2:25am
 
...

Agenda item (7) – Any Other Business
No items of AOB were raised.

Date of Next Meeting:

Note that the date of the next meeting has been moved to Monday 2nd April 2007. The meeting will commence at 2:00pm and will take place at Riverside House, London

(Was Wednesday 28 th March)

Summary of New and Outstanding Actions:

Aug06_09
Porting differential issue to be added to the agenda of the first NTSFG meeting of 2007

Nov06_03
Ofcom to confirm if the use of 0871 as a presentation number will be prohibited once covered by ICSTIS’ jurisdiction

Jan07_04
Ofcom to consider the request for an extension to the 0870 implementation timetable

Jan07_06
Andrew Wileman to contact the chair of the Mobile Broadband Group with a view to seeking representation from the mobile community at the NTSFG

Feb07_00
Ofcom to confirm its response made at the meeting in writing to Flextel.

Feb07_01
BT to confirm if it will be applying pre-call announcements to 0870 calls post 1 st February 2008

Feb07_02
Andrew Wileman to discuss attendance of selected NTSFG representatives at the Mobile Broadband Group with Hamish MacLeod

Feb07_03
Attendees to consider if the duration of the 03 parallel block reservation window should be reduced and feed back to the chair

Feb07_04
BT to provide an indication of the form of contractual terms for 03 services

Feb07_05
Ofcom to review the concerns around 03 implementation and consider potential remedies to the situation

[end]
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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Feb 22, 2007
Reply #5 - Apr 8th, 2007 at 5:25pm
 
idb wrote on Apr 7th, 2007 at 2:22am:
ICSTIS progress re. Governance of 0871
Clive Hillier confirmed that the ICSTIS consultation document was due to be published in March.
Well we're in April now and I still haven't seen the final ICSTIS consultation on this.  It was originally planned for February according to the pre-consultation timelines.

However, I suspect that ICSTIS have been really busy with chat/show quizes 09x and just how many of them are now admitting that they've not followed guidance and in some cases have cheated.
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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Feb 22, 2007
Reply #6 - Apr 14th, 2007 at 6:00am
 
I also strongly suspect Ofcom are planning on postponing the 1st Feb 2008 change date for 0870 and have already tipped ICSTIS the wink on this. Shocked Angry Smiley Smiley

In view of comments in these minutes I am going to write to Ed Richards, CEO of Ofcom formally asking for consumer representation at these NTS Focus Group meetings.

Its clear the whole Ofcom plan is in total meltdown and what they actually need to do is to change 0845 and 0870 numbers to GN rates at the same time.  They also need to set a clear final date for all 0845 and 0870 numbers to migrate to GN priced 03 numbers after a transition period and also to set a clear date for all 0844 and 0871 numbers to move to 09.

Also its apparent from Ofcom's urgent 3 month timetable on compulsory issuing of MAC codes that Ofcom can act quickly when it wants to.  I would suggest this is a matter on which urgent and rapid action by Ofcom is now required.

BT owned Plusnet's announcement of a new 01 number for customer contact as a result of customer complaints on this issue is a growing sign of the widespread consumer revolt against telecoms ripoffs.
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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Feb 22, 2007
Reply #7 - Apr 14th, 2007 at 1:55pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 14th, 2007 at 6:00am:
BT owned Plusnet's announcement of a new 01 number for customer contact as a result of customer complaints on this issue is a growing sign of the widespread consumer revolt against telecoms ripoffs.

Indeed, and why has the PM not made any comment on the Saynoto0870 e-petition, but he has done so on others?  Huh
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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - Feb 22, 2007
Reply #8 - Apr 14th, 2007 at 2:18pm
 
Dave wrote on Apr 14th, 2007 at 1:55pm:
Indeed, and why has the PM not made any comment on the Saynoto0870 e-petition, but he has done so on others?  Huh


The PM has already sent me an email reassuring me that The Red Arrows are not going to be closed down, even though the petitition against this is still open and running.  So strange he did not have a prepared response to hand when the 084/7 petition closed.

I am sure the Petitions unit would have like to answer this immediately claiming the problem will all be solved on 1st Feb 2008 but stumbling on the incredible bodge up agreed to by Sean Williams and the rest of the Ofcom nincompoops and finding that it did not provide this simple and straightforward outcome they had hoped for they have gone off to think further about it.

Perhaps not least because of the fact that far more government departments and agencies are using 0845 rather than 0870 numbers.
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