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ICSTIS 0871 Consultation (Read 108,884 times)
SandLake
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #30 - Jun 21st, 2007 at 12:45pm
 
Slightly off point but what about a system like

0871 1xx xxx at 1p per minute
0871 2xx xxx at 2p per minute
0871 3xx xxx at 3p per minute

and so on
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NGMsGhost
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #31 - Jun 21st, 2007 at 1:21pm
 
DaLilMan wrote on Jun 21st, 2007 at 12:34pm:
Just thought I might add this line to my response. Dont know if its worth it but done it anyway


"Every Company should make freely available on the internet an alternative geographical telephone number whether it be on their website or on any website that can provide these by means of a search engine"


It does no harm to ask for the alternative to be published but I doubt that they will listen sadly as ICSTIS inevitably believe in the right of companies to use NGNs and Ofcom are allowing them to make the rules on this basis.

More important though is to point out that call queuing is currently limited to 15 seconds for 09 numbers costing 25p per minute or more and so given that 0871 numbers cost 5 to 10p per minute we believe call queuing of more than 60 seconds should be banned and that if the queue is longer than this then companies should be subjected to large fines and will also have their right to use 0871 numbers closed down for at least 12 months.
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Maxadolf
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #32 - Jun 21st, 2007 at 6:46pm
 
Response to ICSTIS Consultation sent to Project Manager of ICSTIS by Maxadolf 21/06/07

I have just familiarised myself with the ICSTIS  consultation questionnaire and associated summary of its proposals.  It is extraordinary that, notwithstanding the myriad complaints of abuse using non-geographic numbers, your fundamental approach will make no significant dent into the continued perpetration of these abuses.  I seriously question whether the ICSTIS may be an instrument of the telecommunication industry and their clients with an agenda working on behalf of those organizations that use the system to generate additional revenue which, you know very well, is dishonestly acquired.   Do you have any idea of the sheer anger and frustration that members of the public have to endure because of these abuses, contrived queuing on 087 numbers being the most offensive?



Instead of producing a bureaucrat’s charter which you refer to as a “Consultation Questionnaire”, would your organization please use some basic common sense and resist making a career out of formulating even more opportunities for telecommunication thefts.  Any system that you propose that allows companies or individuals to contrive revenue creating opportunities without benefit to the public is plain criminal in intent and action.  Why cannot you people see this?   Why don’t you simply purge the system using the kind of common sense expected of the man on the proverbial Clapham Omnibus?   Anything that falls short of such common sense by providing new opportunities of fraud and theft can only lead to one horrible and disgusting conclusion: namely, that the ICSTIS and telecommunication industry along with their corrupt clients are working  to a common agenda that ignores ethical codes of conduct and the lawful rights of the public to avail themselves of an honest, commercial service.



Two criteria that the ICSTS show no awareness of, are:



Providing the public with a commercial telecommunication facility that does not double-charge the public.  Paying the Communication Provider a competitive rate is one thing; back-handers paid to their clients at the expense of the public is another, especially when the latter are the victims of contrived delays that are charged at premium rates.
Incentives to corrupt companies to continue generating undeclared, line revenues using the very system that you are proposing.  What is the point of setting up another corruptible system?


Please do not make the mistake of disregarding the sheer anger engendered by past  and present abuses perpetrated under the noses of the various “Regulating” bodies.  The public are not stupid!








>:(
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johnday1
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #33 - Jun 21st, 2007 at 8:19pm
 
What these companies do not realise is that customers like me see a prefix 08 and  ring a diffrent company with a 01/02 prefix

I am a small company in the office equipment  trade and can only congratulate the company bosses who employee these no brainers to come up with these  ideas of 0870 ect,  Just think some companies lose one customer at £75.00 callout so how many thousands of calls do they need to answer to recoup these losses and the  customers  future return custom .
I am enjoying several new customers every week turning to businesses like me with normal telephone numbers for repairs to their equipment as a protest to calling major companies .keep up the good work 0870  it helps customers realise small companies are cheaper and offer a more personal caring service. well done
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« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2007 at 8:34pm by johnday1 »  
 
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Cruz
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #34 - Jun 21st, 2007 at 8:22pm
 
johnday1 wrote on Jun 21st, 2007 at 8:19pm:
What these companies do not realise is that customers like me see prefix 08 and immediatly ring another company with a 01/02 prefix
I am a sole trader in office equipment and can only congratulate the company bosses who employee these no brainer ideas of 0870 ect,
I am enjoying several new customer every week turning to businesses like me with normal telephone numbers for repairs to their equipment as a protest to calling major companies .keep up the good work 0870  its help small business !like me and also realising small companies are cheaper and offer a more personal caring service. well done

Grin   Cool
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« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2007 at 8:23pm by Cruz »  
 
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wacs
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #35 - Jun 21st, 2007 at 8:26pm
 
Hello, I have read through this and want to forward the info by email to the people I know will be interested.  But like so many changes to telecommunications policy, it is like wading through mud and just as clear.  A lot of people on this forum and site, have really tried to make it accessible and someone has helpfully provided "model" answers.  I believe confusion has a lot to do with why people don't take the information and attempt to address the issue.

I need model answers!  Which are provided here:  http://www.saynoto0870.com/0871consultation/

but

(Q6) "Yes except that it is mentioned that within section 3 of the code that service providers also hold non-premium rate UK customer service numbers but that you currently think 087x numbers are ok. This is a contradiction as 0871 will be premium rate numbers hence why they will be regulated by ICSTIS. Therefore, it defeats the point of the service provider not holding a non-premium rate number but yet allow them to hold an 0871 contact number. It is suggested therefore that service providers be required to hold a geographical or 0870 number and NOT 0871 numbers."

What does it mean?

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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #36 - Jun 21st, 2007 at 8:51pm
 
wacs wrote on Jun 21st, 2007 at 8:26pm:
(Q6) "Yes except that it is mentioned that within section 3 of the code that service providers also hold non-premium rate UK customer service numbers but that you currently think 087x numbers are ok. This is a contradiction as 0871 will be premium rate numbers hence why they will be regulated by ICSTIS. Therefore, it defeats the point of the service provider not holding a non-premium rate number but yet allow them to hold an 0871 contact number. It is suggested therefore that service providers be required to hold a geographical or 0870 number and NOT 0871 numbers."

What does it mean?
Basically, those companies that have 09x numbers are also obliged to publish cheaper rate numbers like 084x/087x.  It is stressed that this alternative number for contacting companies holding 09x is purely for complaints concerning their 09x and that companies can't provide another 09x number for contact - instead 084x/087x numbers are allowed.

Now what ICSTIS propose is that once 0871 is regulated by ICSTIS then companies must still provide non-premium rate numbers for those making complaints concerning an 0871 number however this would mean that companies using 0871 could still give out another 0871 for those that have an official complaint concerning the 0871 number.

Therefore, if anyone has a complaint with a company concerning their 0871 number that they shouldn't (although ICSTIS thinks it ok) for that company to issue another alternative 0871 to complain about their main 0871 number.

Does that make sense?
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« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2007 at 8:53pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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NGMsGhost
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #37 - Jun 21st, 2007 at 9:02pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Jun 21st, 2007 at 8:51pm:
Does that make sense?


No its complete double dutch I'm afraid I have to say.

Are you saying:-

"Although ICSTIS will control 0871 numbers they won't define them as being officially Premium Rate (as 09 numbers are) and that this means an 0871 provider can therefore also list an 0871 number as the only means of contact for complaints about their 0871 numbers.  And obviously we don't think this is fair and instead we believe they should have to list an 01/02/03 number for complaints about the 0871 numbers."

I think this is what you are trying to say? Undecided
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« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2007 at 9:03pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #38 - Jun 21st, 2007 at 9:11pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Jun 21st, 2007 at 9:02pm:
Are you saying:-

"Although ICSTIS will control 0871 numbers they won't define them as being officially Premium Rate (as 09 numbers are) and that this means an 0871 provider can therefore also list an 0871 number as the only means of contact for complaints about their 0871 numbers.  And obviously we don't think this is fair and instead we believe they should have to list an 01/02/03 number for complaints about the 0871 numbers."

I think this is what you are trying to say? Undecided
Yep, that's it.  Been a v long day and god knows how many times I've climbed the wall  Grin
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Fabian
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #39 - Jun 22nd, 2007 at 7:38pm
 
Hello everyone,

I've woken from my torpor as a result of the mass (e-)mailout for which I am grateful.  
I've tried to navigate the ICSTIS site but it is even more baffling than the Ofcom one.

What I am looking for is the responses if they are published.  Does anyone know how to get to them?

May I take this opportunity of congratulating Maxadolf on his (her?) response.  It sums up everything that everyone feels and in elegant and expressive prose.

Fabian

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NGMsGhost
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #40 - Jun 22nd, 2007 at 8:09pm
 
Fabian wrote on Jun 22nd, 2007 at 7:38pm:
I've woken from my torpor as a result of the mass (e-)mailout for which I am grateful.   I've tried to navigate the ICSTIS site but it is even more baffling than the Ofcom one.

What I am looking for is the responses if they are published.  Does anyone know how to get to them?


Hello Fabian,

Its good to hear from you and a post from you on this site is indeed a rare pleasure despite the sterling service you put in on behalf of this campaign when you attended the meeting at Ofcom.

In answer to your question the little blighters at ICSTIS do their very best to hide the responses to their consultations but they can be found at the link below for previous consultations where you can find my own very strong opposition to their earlier pre-consultation on the 0871 matter. Not of course that they listened being entirely in the pockets of the call centre industry.  Here is the link:-

www.icstis.org.uk/service_providers/responsestoconsultations/default.asp

Unfortunately though the policy of ICSTIS seems to be not to publish responses to consultations until after they have closed and even then not for several weeks.  If you object to this as I do perhaps you would like to email their top brass with your views.  These can be found at:-

www.icstis.org.uk/about/icstis/executive/directors.asp

You might like to email the Chief Executive George Kidd, Director of Policy Paul Whiteing and Director of Standards & Communications Trays O'Reilly to express your displeasure at the non publication of responses received while the consultation is still open.

The key think Fabian is to ignore their questionnaire and just read the 0871 document and then object to the things in it you feel are wrong.

If you respond to the questionnaire then you will be playing their game by only responding on what they want to hear about while missing many of the key issues.

I look forward to reading your response to the 0871 consultation on the ICSTIS website in due course.
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #41 - Jun 23rd, 2007 at 6:51pm
 
This is just to say thanks for the mass email that alerted me to the 0871 consultation, and this issue that is fast approaching as the changes finally come in for 0870 numbers.
It is frightening to see how many companies are already switching to 0871. 

Anyway response has been duly submitted to ICSTIS for what it's worth.  I shall be surprised, however, to see them do anything radical to change the direction we seem to be heading - but I can live in hope.   

Thanks again - Brendan.
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echo734
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #42 - Jun 24th, 2007 at 12:57am
 
Hello
I`ve submitted the ICSTIS 0871 Consultation document using the prepared answers, hope it gets somewhere.
Great site, keep up the good work
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NGMsGhost
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #43 - Jun 24th, 2007 at 1:47am
 
[quote author=echo734 link=1177633952/30#42 date=1182643027]Hello
I`ve submitted the ICSTIS 0871 Consultation document using the prepared answers, hope it gets somewhere.
Great site, keep up the good work [/quote]

The prepared answers were only intended to give you a starting point and not meant to be copied verbatim so I do hope that you translated these into your own words emphasising the issues that were most important to you? :-/
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #44 - Jun 26th, 2007 at 7:44am
 
There is only 2 days left before this consultation closes so I guess I'll have to submit my response.  I plan on doing it tonight  Wink
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