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ICSTIS 0871 Consultation (Read 108,867 times)
NGMsGhost
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #45 - Jun 26th, 2007 at 11:35am
 
bbb_uk wrote on Jun 26th, 2007 at 7:44am:
There is only 2 days left before this consultation closes so I guess I'll have to submit my response.  I plan on doing it tonight  Wink


I'm in the same position as you.

Its hard to muster the enthusiasm knowing ICSTIS probably won't listen.... Sad
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Tanllan
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #46 - Jun 26th, 2007 at 2:04pm
 
probably?
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NGMsGhost
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #47 - Jun 26th, 2007 at 2:10pm
 
Tanllan wrote on Jun 26th, 2007 at 2:04pm:
probably?


Well one has to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

If they totally ignore all the feedback suggesting they must restrict call queuing then we will know that it is a definitely a conspiracy between the NTS industry and their chums at the regulators and that this consultation only amounts to the usual Blairite going through the motions of appearing to consult for the sake of it.

Also it is vital to suggest in one's response that the whole 0870 to 0871 and Ofcom to ICSTIS move is simply a deliberate elaborate joint confidence trick by Ofcom and ICSTIS to give the appearance of action while in fact the public is no better off.  That at least puts pressure on them to limit call queuing so that the public get something in return for paying 10p per minute at all times instead of only 7p per minute at peak times and as little as 1.5p per minute at the weekends with the present 0870.

Of course it might do no harm to refer to the previous suggestion by Ofcom Communications Director Matt Peacock dueing an interview on You & Yours that all firms running these numbers should be forced to publish their geographic alternatives.
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« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2007 at 2:17pm by NGMsGhost »  

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bbb_uk
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #48 - Jun 26th, 2007 at 9:32pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Jun 26th, 2007 at 2:10pm:
Tanllan wrote on Jun 26th, 2007 at 2:04pm:
probably?


Well one has to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
I'm glad someone is trying to be optimistic.  I personally try and be optimistic but when it comes to NGN issue I do believe, without a miracle, we're up against a brick wall.  I personally believe ICSTIS is the same as Ofcom and really don't care about our concerns at all but I bet you most of their staff use the site database though to avoid ringing them even though they wont do nothing about them.
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #49 - Jun 27th, 2007 at 6:52pm
 
This consultation closes tomorrow, 28th June.

I'm currently writing my response now  Wink
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #50 - Jun 27th, 2007 at 8:51pm
 
hi ! just found this site after reading a letter in the halifax courier. i reckon this will save me about £40 a month on phone bills. also it does help prove that we are sleepwalking into a state/big business dictatorship,whatever your political colours.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #51 - Jun 27th, 2007 at 9:00pm
 
big_t wrote on Jun 27th, 2007 at 8:51pm:
hi ! just found this site after reading a letter in the halifax courier. i reckon this will save me about £40 a month on phone bills. also it does help prove that we are sleepwalking into a state/big business dictatorship,whatever your political colours.


Visit www.euphony.co.uk and you might find it becomes more like £45 per month.

As to the state and big business dictatorship business yes it is happening after 10 years of the devious and control freakish Blair and his chums in power.

CCTV cameras everywhere, GATSOs everywhere, enlarged secret police tracking your every post on the internet for non conformity etc, etc.

Unfortunately George Orwell's 1984 has nearly finally arrived in 2007.  All Blair needs now is to pass a law to put a broadband link and webcam in every HDTV and they will be monitoring you inside your home too.  Of course they can already do that whenever you by choice use a webcam on the internet. Wink Shocked

By the way I hope you also submit a response to the ICSTIS consultation.

Just pointing out that 084/7 calls are currently costing you £40 per month that you wouldn't be paying if they still started 01 or 02 would be enough to have an effect.
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« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2007 at 9:01pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #52 - Jun 28th, 2007 at 7:15pm
 
thats all too true old pal,it doesn't matter who's in power their all middle class ,all born & bred to keep us all in line. man will never rebel until he becomes conscious but will never become conscious until he rebels.keep up fight.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #53 - Jun 28th, 2007 at 7:43pm
 
big_t wrote on Jun 28th, 2007 at 7:15pm:
thats all too true old pal,it doesn't matter who's in power their all middle class ,all born & bred to keep us all in line. man will never rebel until he becomes conscious but will never become conscious until he rebels.keep up fight.


So you hate Thatcher but surely Tony Bliar has been just as bad.

Still the ruthless business people rule the roost but with the blessing of those who are meant to be pursuing the interests of the little people??
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #54 - Jun 29th, 2007 at 1:08pm
 
I knew I would regret it.

I spent 9 A4 typed pages detailing the litany of deception and double dealing by OFTEL, Ofcom and ICSTIS that will now lead to nearly every major commercial 0870 number user changing to 0871 and doubling their profits from the numbers on 1st Feb 2008.

As they will presumably be ignoring its contents entirely I clearly need to send copies to every MP who has been asking Parliamentary Questions regarding 084/7 numbers.
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« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2007 at 1:26pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #55 - Jun 29th, 2007 at 1:15pm
 
No doubt you mean changing to "0871" numbers and more or less doubling their profits NGM'sG? We know of course the migration is already under way and has been gathering pace for some while.
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« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2007 at 1:16pm by dorf »  

Ofcom are completely ineffectual
 
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NGMsGhost
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #56 - Jun 29th, 2007 at 1:31pm
 
dorf wrote on Jun 29th, 2007 at 1:15pm:
No doubt you mean changing to "0871" numbers and more or less doubling their profits NGM'sG? We know of course the migration is already under way and has been gathering pace for some while.

dorf its good to see you are still reading the forum if not posting often.

Of course we know the worst offenders like Sky (who now have their former Communications Director handily in place as the new Communications Director of Ofcom) will wait until 1st Feb 2008 so it will be too late for a public head of steam to build up against the Ofcom and ICSTIS changes before they are pushed through.

I particularly emphasised that an excuse for using 084 and 087 numbers always cited was that you never had to change number but now nearly everyone has to change number to either 0871 or to 03.  So even that was clearly yet another blatant lie as is almost everything that the 084/7 number venders tell us to justify the activities of their sordid little industry.
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #57 - Jun 29th, 2007 at 5:55pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Jun 29th, 2007 at 1:08pm:
...As they will presumably be ignoring its contents entirely...
I have to agree. I don't expect ICSTIS will take any of our comments/suggestions seriously.  I seriously believe, like Ofcom, they already have made their minds up and are just going through the emotions to make it look like they want ordinary joe public's opinion.
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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #58 - Jun 29th, 2007 at 6:09pm
 
A large part of my response was devoted to rehearsing the previous fake consultations by OFTEL and Ofcom where the public's views were consistently ignored and ICSTIS then reneging on Ofcom's clear commitment in NTS: Way Forward that 0871 numbers would be regulated as fully Premium Rate only for ICSTIS to try and wriggle out of this.  I also took apart their claims that there wasn't much consumer detriment in paying £6 per hour and suggested all calls to 0871 not answered in 60 seconds are auto disconnected withe the call auto refunded plus a 25p compensatory fee and with a compulsory voice mail messaging service or key tone entry based ring back facility provided and if the ring back is not provided in 2 hours and the caller reports this to ICSTIS then the company would be fined £100 each time.

I also concentrated on the likelihood these numbers would cost a fortune from mobiles and cost a fortune from or not be accessible from overseas despite airline customer service desks being amongst the most likely users.

I plan to email my response to a larger circulation list of MPs and journalists interested in 0870 but apparently so far blind to the threat of 0871 in due course.

I also pointed out that they had ignored all of my response to the Pre-Consulation and I refused to answer any of the questionnaire as it was clearly only focused on the needs of telecoms companies and call centre operators and written on the basis that 0871 numbers without call queuing restrictions or call price announcements were definitely going ahead anyway.
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« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2007 at 6:12pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: ICSTIS 0871 Consultation
Reply #59 - Jun 29th, 2007 at 8:59pm
 
The thing is that the more numbers there are the more difficult it is to police them. They pointed out that the types of services on 09 tend to be different to those on 0871 and that has come about because of the lack of regulation.

One principal type of service is customer services which they called a 'secondary service' to a 'primary purchase' such as mail order. The question was raised about whether ICSTIS should get involved with the primary purchase which I think that the answer is obviously not. These are also 'locked in' type services and a phone call may be necessary where the retailer does not answer email.

Quote:
However, as recognised above, there are differences between conventional premium rate services where the service is wholly paid for by the cost of the call and those provided on the 0871 number range where the number is often a facility to provide contact with a company. While some revenue may be derived from the cost of the call, frequently the primary source of revenue is related to a separate purchase of goods or services.

This implies that the main reason that these sorts of SPs choose 0871 isn't because of revenue. Of course, part of the reason is companies' ignorance of telephone call charges and what they believe to be a "cheap call".

I also pointed out that from the caller's point of view it's not so much the revenue (or amount thereof), but the call cost. OK, so you can't have revenue without higher call charges, but when a caller chooses between different 0871 SPs (I am entertaining the way Ofcom sees it now) they don't see how much revenue they get, which may vary despite both numbers costing the same. My point being that amount of revenue paid is not relevant, but call charges are.

It is also apparent that ICSTIS is supposedly seeking to police these numbers, but because the SPs say that they can't abolish call queueing, ICSTIS won't outlaw this. So what's the point in regulation?  Roll Eyes
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