-----Original Message-----
Sent: 07 June 2007 15:19
To: youandyours@bbc.co.uk
Cc: bob.tolliday@which.co.uk; robert.pickard@which.co.uk; winifred.robinson@bbc.co.uk; liz.barclay@bbc.co.uk; katy.johnson@bbc.co.uk; katy.johnston@bbc.co.uk; peter.vicary-smith@which.co.uk
Subject: 084/7 - Only 9 Years For Which To Get The Message + Matt Peacock's You and Yours Interview

Dear You and Yours,

It was interesting to hear Bob Tolliday from Which interviewed on today's (Thursday 7th June) program warning consumers of the dangers of using 084 and 087 numbers and the extra costs that they bring, especially for anyone with a fixed price calling plan for 01/02 calls, who would pay nothing at all to call a company that uses an 01 or 02 prefixed number for their customer service centre.  But why has it taken Which around 9 years to finally get the message on this important consumer issue when domestic landline customers, making their calls using the cheapest available telecoms provider, have been finding 084 and 087 numbers are a lot more expensive to call since as long ago as 1998?  Could it be because Which for a long time made extensive use of 0870 numbers themselves?

The other thing that I don't think was properly explained on your program was the shameful failure of Ofcom to impose a clear cut solution that all consumers will understand and instead merely tinkering with the current system in a crazy way that will mean the formerly higher rate 0870 numbers  will be charged at 01/02 prices from 1st Feb 2008 but 0845 numbers (for so long misleadingly marketed by people like UK Police forces as being Lo-Call) will still go on being charged at a higher Premium Rate of up to 40p per minute on a mobile and 11p per minute on a BT Payphone (instead of a normal 2p per minute on a Payphone for an 01/02 call).  Also on mobiles and BT Payphones 0845 numbers are charged at just the same covert Premium Rate as 0870 numbers, and its only on a home landline that 0845 is actually any cheaper than 0870 calls.

When I attended a Consumer meeting at Ofcom on their 084/7 proposals in November 2005 as a representative of the www.saynoto0870.com campaign the then lady representative of Which still didn't really seem to understand what the problem was or why anyone actually minded calling 084/7 numbers.

Ofcom's lame excuse for not also making 0845 numbers the same price as normal geographic 01/02 numbers on 1st Feb 2008 (as will happen for 0870 numbers called from landlines) is that it would apparently be complicated for the businesses of dialup 0845 ISPs but by February 2008 hardly anyone who uses the internet at all frequently at home will still be using dialup, so this surely isn't a credible excuse by Ofcom, especially when Ofcom sees apparently no problem in virtually every government call centres now having to get a new 03 number and change all their literature as a result of Ofcom's stupid decision to put the profitability of dialup ISPs ahead of government contract centres being able to keep their existing 0845 numbers   In my view Ofcom's real agenda here in fact seems to be to preserve a lower value class of 084/7 calls so that the interests of call centre managers who just can't fully kick the hidden revenue sharing habit are protected.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 07 June 2007 18:37
To: bob.tolliday@which.co.uk
Cc: youandyours.co.uk@bbc.co.uk; robert.pickard@which.co.uk; winifred.robinson@bbc.co.uk; liz.barclay@bbc.co.uk; katy.johnson@bbc.co.uk; katy.johnston@bbc.co.uk; colette.bowe@ofcomconsumerpanel.org.uk; bob.twitchin@ofcomconsumerpanel.org.uk; ed.richards@ofcom.org.uk; steve.roberts@ofcom.org.uk; julian.eccles@ofcom.org.uk; claudio.pollack@ofcom.org.uk; steve.unger@ofcom.org.uk; gareth.davies@ofcom.org.uk; tessa.jowell@culture.gov.uk; ChristopherG@asa.org.uk; GuyP@asa.org.uk; RogerW@asa.org.uk; marc.michaels@coi.gsi.gov.uk; robert.irons@coi.gsi.gov.uk; david.currie@ofcom.org.uk; philip.graf@ofcom.org.uk; stephanie.liston@ofcom.org.uk; sara.nathan@ofcom.org.uk; ian.hargreaves@ofcom.org.uk; millie.banerjee@ofcom.org.uk; penny.boys@oft.gov.uk; vincent.smith@oft.gov.uk; jonathan.may@oft.gov.uk; john.fingleton@oft.gov.uk; ian.livingston@bt.com
Subject: Seeing The Light After Previous 084/7 Number Use & Link to Matt Peacock Interview


Dear Mr Tolliday,

Further to my previous email it is certainly pleasing to see that Which's very belated conversion to opposition to 0870 numbers is not mere rhetoric but has been backed up with firm action and with the Contact Us section on www.which.co.uk and the directory listings for Which at www.192.com and www.118118.co.uk now only showing 01/02 contact numbers.

The only thing that gives the game away as to the past in respect of Which's use of 084/7 numbers are some listings on the www.saynoto0870.com website.  These show-

Which? (Consumers Association)  0845 3074000 = 01992 822800  Switchboard  Free Guides & Subscriptions: 0800 573574
Which? (Consumers Association)  0845 3010010 = 01992 822882 0800 252100 Online Customer services
Which? (Consumers Association)  0845 3074000 = 01992 822828  Legal Services direct; (0845 is switchboard)

This tells us what I knew to be the case.  Namely that Which was formerly using 0845 numbers and before that for several years was using 0870 numbers.  And more than that back in those days its Chief Executive, Peter Vicary-Smith, was sufficiently arrogant about the matter that he simply did not bother to reply to any communications complaining about the use of these numbers.

Also interesting was when I called Which today to get your email address and on querying why you used to use 0845 numbers was immediately told that "Which didn't make any money out of them".  Now of course I know that not to be true since any organisation which takes a service like a new switchboard or automatic call forwarding elsewhere out of hours always gets those services cheaper if they agree to use an 0845 or 0870 number than if they maintain their geographic 01/02 number.  So to my mind those lower charges are in fact a payment by your callers to subsidise your contract price with your telecoms supplier and I suspect asking Which to provide information about what commercial negotiations it has had to do with its telecoms supplier in order to provide all 01/02 numbers would be particularly instructive.  So while Which's new found conversions to 020 numbers is most welcome I think your organisation must be recognised as the sinner that has repented that it actually is, rather than a true longstanding exponent of the anti 084/7 cause.

Coming back to former Ofcom Communication Director Matt Peacock's previous interview I think it might be instructive for you and others to listen to those comments and to see how far short Ofcom has still fallen short of the commitments that Matt made at that time.   Now I am quite sure Matt's comments were undoubtedly made in the best of faith and also before he became aware of the more sinister forces at work at Ofcom at places like its cosy industry meetings with the main 084/7 number vending merchants.  The tone of these meetings can be easily judged by reading the minutes of the various meetings of the Ofcom NTS Focus Group, now chaired by one of the leading protagonists of 084/7 numbers, at www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/groups/nts_focus/

Matt's previous commitments in respect of changes Ofcom would make in 084/7 number use and alternatives can be listened to at:- rtsp://rmv8.bbc.net.uk/radio4/youandyours/youandyours_20041108.ra?start="00:01:4
2.0"&end="00:10:09.0"

However thank you once again for your efforts in getting Which on to the straight and narrow on a matter on which it previously only had a distinctly commercial rather than a consumer centric agenda.

Regards,

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 07 June 2007 18:41
To: bob.tolliday@which.co.uk

Subject: Matt Peacock You & Yours Interview Link - Correction

Apologies but my previous link to this You and Yours interview didn't work.

The actual interview given on 8th November 2004 can be heard at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/ram/youandyours_20041108_1.ram

Your email shows that you are far from flagging.  Keep going.  As usual, you are doing a splendid job.

However Dave or bbb ideally ought to be able to somehow capture the Which interview audio stream (as the BBC now sadly remove You & Yours programs after 7 days from their site) for the You & Yours program and/or do a transcipt of it and get it up on the list of useful links etc.