I expect this info is available somewhere (although I cannot find it on the BT website) and I need it urgently for use in a battle with Essex County Council regarding their use of 0845s which they insist are "local rate".   Please what are the prices per minute for a daytime call to an 0845 and an 01/02 number?   I have advised ECC that 0845s are considered premium rate(well, it has been said here they are so considered by the EU at least & they are a "premium" on my call package!) and about COI guidelines regarding sole use of NGNs by the public sector but the person in question is planning to add "local rate" to their letters giving the 0845 no!

At one particular point most of the world telecom and the UK were once control by one company also known as a monopoly, or BT for the UK. In 1999 Oftel changed the rules to the phone services forcing BT to make it's phone lines available as a lease option as available to other telecom operators to start phone services . Most new phone companies offered phone services much cheaper than BT. Many people started to switch to other telecom companies which took a good share of BT customers. In order for BT to keep existing customers from switching over to it's new competion.  BT started to lower prices on national, and local calls.

There was a campaign in the 90's to end BT practice of local metered call on the same merit as saynoto0870.com is trying to end revenue sharing on non geographic calls.


BT came up with concept of non geographic numbers to help business establish a national identity without being targeted for a particular location for business like geographic numbers similar to the 0800 numbers without costing them the same expense as the 0800 numbers cost business.  These numbers be charged at national rate call which at that particular time BT National Rate was metered not inclusive of unlimited un metered minutes that the current 01, and 02 geographic numbers have today.


I hope this would answer BT lo-cal phone rate charge on 0845 numbers.

It should be stated as BT local metered phone rate.  


I dunno why your local council wants a 0845 number, it is fairly unfair for people on fixed incomes, and poor people who want to ring their local council members for services, or enquiries.

I hope I gave some good information about 0845 number, if not please let me know


Best Regards

Oasis

Help, Dave, I think I am more confused than ever.  I understood that calls to 0845 were more expensive that to geo nos yet from the replies this seems not to be the case unless one is on a call package, or calling from a mobile or payphone so how can I argue this?   Is it the case that so few people are on BT Options 1 & 2, this is an unfair comparison and comparisons should be made with Option 3 where daytime calls to geo nos are included (ie 0p per min) whereas calls to 0845 are 3p per min?   Isn't it now also the case that there is always a 3p set up charge with BT now on any non-inclusive calls?

Checking through, it seems my safest ground is on calls from mobiles and payphones where the best comparison is up to 40p per min from mobiles to 0845 (compared with 12p per min to a geo no)and 10.91p per min from a BT payphone to 0845 compared to 1p per min to a geo no?

I did to an FOI against ECC last year and got some nos but, in the particular case I am arguing, it is to help my husband (who is a district cllr) argue against an officer of ECC who (having been useless in helping recent flood victims - yes, we had them in Essex too) are providing 0845  on letter/email acknowledgements to contact on "urgent" matters and, when it was pointed out that this was considered premium rate, replied "no, it's local rate but for clarity we should add that to the 0845 no on the acknowledgements"!   I will point out that this would further mislead the public etc but actual costings would be useful.

Need this urgently to add to the reply to ECC.   Thanks.

bbb_uk, thank you that is very clear & helpful, I will use the information appropriately in support of the case.   I would imagine that those using the basic BT option are now very few with most having either an inclusive call package and/or using a non-BT provider and many using mobiles or payphones.

Barbara wrote on Jul 15^th, 2007 at 11:50am:

bbb_uk has summed it up nicely. I will reiterate in my own words to clarify the situation. You can skip to the bullet points at the end if you don't want to read the detailed explanation.

Firstly, see the comparison of 01/02 and 0845/0870 prices which I have just updated today. This gives a definitive guide and you might like to use it as evidence.

I think we can generalise with landline tariffs using the following categories:

1. Where calls to 0845 and 0870 are the same as local and national geographical calls, respectively. These are typically BT tariffs and since the mainstream BT Standard tariff was abolished in 2004, there are relatively few residential subscribers on them. Light User Scheme is one example.

2. Calls to 0845 numbers (not 0870) are the same as a call to 01/02 number during the weekday daytime only. BT Together Options 1 & 2 is BT's most basic mainstream tariff and it can be put into this category. As can Post Office Home Phone. At all other times calls to 0845 are more expensive than 01/02.

3. Calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers are more expensive than 01/02 numbers at all times. This includes inclusive packages where 01/02 numbers are included at no extra cost some or all of the time. Tariffs in this category: All (most) tariffs from Virgin Media, Talk Talk, Tiscali, Sky Talk and Euphony. Also BT Together Option 3.

To say that calls to 0845 numbers are always more expensive than 01/02 numbers on particular tariffs is incorrect. Some of today's tariffs do charge the same rate for 0845 and 01/02 and this is during the weekday daytime only on some provider's most basic tariff (category 2).

All but category 1 tariffs usually charge the same for local and national geographical rates.

If I were you I would make the following points:

• On the vast majority of mainstream tariffs, calls to local and national 01/02 geographical numbers are the same.
• This does not mean that 0845 is the same as an 01/02 local/national call on these sorts of tariffs.
  
  The fact that some are the same does not make this statement incorrect, but there's no need to mention that some charge the same during the daytime. It's a bit like playing them at their own game. They argue that it is local rate because some people pay the same rate (at certain times). You are saying that this is frequently not the case.
• Many tariffs offer cheaper 01/02 calls and some even make them free for a higher monthly fee. This does not include 0845 calls which are generally charged at the same rate across one provider's range of tariffs, where 01/02 rates vary.
  
  Some uniformed service providers may pass the book back to the telcos for charging higher 0845 prices. What they (the SPs or companies/organisations operating the service) are implying is that the telcos are putting a higher markup on 0845 calls. This is not true as they get charged more for 0845 calls than 01/02 ones.
  
  Think of car dealerships selling manufacturer's new cars. Compare vehicles of similar size from companies in different places in the market such as Ford and Mercedes. It is to be expected that the Mercedes will be more expensive than the Ford. This is not because the Mercedes dealer makes more profit (puts a higher markup on the car) than the Ford dealer, but because the manufacturer charges different prices. Same applies here where the Mercedes is 0845 and the Ford is 01/02.

My comments are in italics. Don't put them in your correspondance!

Offcom needs to regulate how much a telcom can charge a customer as in rate increase or how much they can charge a customer for making a call. Charing a setup fee to make a call should be abolished. All the current 0870 number rates were set by BT. They are more concerned on making money on the current 7p daytime rate rather trying to drop it. I do not think offcom did enough to end revenue sharing among telcom and its customers. Most current 0870 providers now encourging people who have 0870 numbers to migrate them to 0845 0844 and 0871 or face line rental fees and call divert charges per minute to their 01/02 numbers. No telcom wants to give up their source of revenue with their non geographic numbers. Who would set the new 0870 rate starting next year BT or Offcom. How can we argue to the FOI about 0845 being premuim when BT charges the same daytime rate as a 0845 for a 01/02 geographic number under a package called BT Together Option 1.