SAYNOTO0870.COM - How low can it go?

NGMsGhost

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Re: How low can it go?
Reply #15 - Jul 23^rd, 2007 at 10:40am

idb wrote on Jul 21^st, 2007 at 2:01pm:

I'm fairlly certain that it could have been a success if it had used 08 NGNs as its terminating numbers, thus achieving a revenue stream, rather than use the ludicrous 07 PN system that no one wants to call, at least after they have seen the first bill.

idb now I find you endorsing 08 numbers and suggesting that their use by Patientline would have been legitimate Shocked

Its true that as 08 can't cost more than 10p per minute it would have been less bad than Patientline but still it would have relied on the "national rate call" con that we so oppose.

The only reasonable solution is for the NHS to provide this infrastructure itself as private hospitals do and to consider it an inherent of providing a modern decent standard of care where keeping patients in touch with their families is all part of keeping them well.

To my mind call costs should be no higher than on a BT Option 1 landline.

Or is your point that had they used 0871 at up to 10p per minute it would have still been a con but that 10p per minute would have been less likely to create the same level of fuss that has so clearly damaged their business model?

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intercity125

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Re: How low can it go?
Reply #16 - Jul 23^rd, 2007 at 12:36pm

NGMsGhost wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2007 at 8:50am:

idb wrote on Jul 21^st, 2007 at 12:33am:

Patientline share price - yesterday down some 40% and today another 10% to close at 1.18p

Prices surely can't go any lower than 1p.

The fact that they have not yet called in the liquidators suggests to me they have in fact secretly been offered some form of government bail out.

I believe that share prices can go below 1p.

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NGMsGhost

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Re: How low can it go?
Reply #17 - Jul 23^rd, 2007 at 12:54pm

intercity125 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2007 at 12:36pm:

I believe that share prices can go below 1p.

Customarily it goes bankrupt at that point (especially from the previous high share prices in this case) as no one any longer has any faith in the company and all its suppliers refuse to do business with it because they believe they will not get paid.

The fact that this has not happened in this case suggests that Patientline have been tipped off by the government that some kind of rescue deal and refinancing of their contracts with the NHS will be arranged.

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idb

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Re: How low can it go?
Reply #18 - Jul 24^th, 2007 at 9:09pm

NGMsGhost wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2007 at 10:40am:

idb now I find you endorsing 08 numbers and suggesting that their use by Patientline would have been legitimate Shocked

Its true that as 08 can't cost more than 10p per minute it would have been less bad than Patientline but still it would have relied on the "national rate call" con that we so oppose.

As much as I dislike 087X numbers, the Patientline 07 PNS alternatives are so much worse. When these systems were first installed, 0870 was a 'normal' method of revenue generation, yet greedy Patientline wanted more. Other than using true PRS, it adopted the most expensive revenue-share numbers possible. If it had stuck to 0870, then I doubt it would have received such negative publicity.

The only legitimate use for 0870, in my opinion, is where there is a tangible value-added service, such as international dial through, fax to email, or call recording, and in this case, these services belong in a non 08 range. Charging incoming calls to patients at a premium 0870 rate is not acceptable, however it is more acceptable than using 07 PNS!

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idb Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,499 Miami, Florida, United States Gender:	Re: How low can it go? Reply #19 - Jul 24^th, 2007 at 9:11pm PTL.L is up 28% today to close at a massive 1.38p.
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Dave

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Re: How low can it go?
Reply #20 - Jul 25^th, 2007 at 6:44am

idb wrote on Jul 24^th, 2007 at 9:09pm:

As much as I dislike 087X numbers, the Patientline 07 PNS alternatives are so much worse. When these systems were first installed, 0870 was a 'normal' method of revenue generation, yet greedy Patientline wanted more. Other than using true PRS, it adopted the most expensive revenue-share numbers possible. If it had stuck to 0870, then I doubt it would have received such negative publicity.

I agree with idb here. Whilst a geographical number (or geographically charged number) would be the ideal solution, if we accept that the incoming call charges are to subsidise the system, then a lower rate one would be far better suitable. This is a bit like the way we pay for mobile calls now.

I appreciate that this still causes issues with excessive call charges from mobiles and payphones, but these are yet another example of telcos having their cake and eating it.

The charge for premium numbers should be proportional to geographicals on any particular tariff. So a premium 070/084/087/09 number promoted as costing x p/min from a [BT] landline may cost y+x p/min from a mobile where the provider clearly states the value of y.

Also, freephones should not be allowed to cost more than 01/02 from mobiles.

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« Last Edit: Jul 25^th, 2007 at 6:45am by Dave »

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NGMsGhost

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Re: How low can it go?
Reply #21 - Jul 25^th, 2007 at 8:18am

Dave wrote on Jul 25^th, 2007 at 6:44am:

I agree with idb here. Whilst a geographical number (or geographically charged number) would be the ideal solution, if we accept that the incoming call charges are to subsidise the system, then a lower rate one would be far better suitable. This is a bit like the way we pay for mobile calls now.

Hang on Dave. You just seem to have accepted the NEG business model as being valid now? Huh

Don't forget that these are NHS patients in NHS hospitals and not private hospitals we are talking about. Now you are accepting say 0844 as a valid number for Patientline but not for NEG Surgeryline. How pray can thay be? Is your argument that doctors numbers always existed anyway but that the Patientline service did not previously?

To my mind if people must pay extra for the calls then they must be on 09 number (whatever the price), the calls must be connected immediately on DDI (without IVR systems extending call times) and there must be a call price announcement before the call is connected.

Alternatively instead the patient pays a daily subscription for the whole service, including television, in return for which they get calls at 01/02 landline prices.

At present Patientline tries to have its cake and eat it and has choked on its own greed as a result. Angry

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« Last Edit: Jul 25^th, 2007 at 8:19am by NGMsGhost »

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Dave

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Re: How low can it go?
Reply #22 - Jul 25^th, 2007 at 8:34am

NGMsGhost wrote on Jul 25^th, 2007 at 8:18am:

Hang on Dave. You just seem to have accepted the NEG business model as being valid now? Huh

No I haven't. A surgery's phone system should not be funded via the incoming phone number. The telephone call should be the price of a call to a UK landline (a geographical call). The phone system should be funded from the practice's budget.

The hospital phone system is different in that the subscriber is the patient. Allowing revenue to be derived from the telephone call charges for Patientline et al can be likened to the way we pay higher rates for mobile calls. The mobile providers charge higher termination rates than landline providers do.

Quote:

Don't forget that these are NHS patients in NHS hospitals and not private hospitals we are talking about. Now you are accepting say 0844 as a valid number for Patientline but not for NEG Surgeryline. How pray can thay be? Is your argument that doctors numbers always existed anyway but that the Patientline service did not previously?

Yes, that's how I'm looking at it.

Quote:

Alternatively instead the patient pays a daily subscription for the whole service, including television, in return for which they get calls at 01/02 landline prices.

I am in no way entirely sure that this will work. People take the cheaper ("free") way out in the same way that people come on here and tell us how wonderful 084/087 NTS numbers are because it is free.

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