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Police introduce charges for non-emergency calls (Read 403,447 times)
paropilot
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #255 - Aug 25th, 2009 at 3:51pm
 
The police are constantly asking for the co-operation of the public, then they charge us for giving it!
I have been a Neighbourhood Watch co-ordinator for years. The NW scheme simply asks us to keep an eye on each other's houses and call the police if we see anything suspicious -- which I have always done anyway.
In January 2007 I wrote to the chief constable of the Northern Ireland Police Service expressing concern at his introduction of an 0845 number. He replied that certain geographical numbers would be maintained in line with OFCOM guidance.
In June this year I attempted to report an incident to my local police station and was told that the local number was discontinued and replaced by 0845.  This is charged at 40p/min from my mobile, ie £24 an hour and it can take 10 minutes or more before being answered. Obviously one uses the mobile when one is out and about to see suspicious activity.
I left the possible burglars to get on with their work and wrote again to the chief constable telling him so. I added that I would not use any 0845 number either then or in the future.
He replied that the police did not receive any revenue from the 0845 number, and he gave me the Belfast number shown in your database.
The police (for whom I have great regard) seem to have become a vast bureaucracy dedicated to formfilling and box-ticking. This 0845 saga seems to be another fancy scheme cooked up by management who have an odd way of 'serving' the public and engaging with them. I'm beginning to see why so many people turn a blind eye and say 'it's nothing to do with me'.
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #256 - Aug 25th, 2009 at 4:15pm
 
paropilot wrote on Aug 25th, 2009 at 3:51pm:
In January 2007 I wrote to the chief constable of the Northern Ireland Police Service expressing concern at his introduction of an 0845 number. He replied that certain geographical numbers would be maintained in line with OFCOM guidance.
In June this year I attempted to report an incident to my local police station and was told that the local number was discontinued and replaced by 0845. …

From reports I have seen on the internet, I am given to understand that PSNI is 'switching off' local 028 numbers.

The news release from PSNI when it introduced the 0845 number in November 2005 stated that they would be "Low cost calls charged at local rates". The page has since been removed from the PSNI website, but has been stored by Internet Archive:

http://www.psni.police.uk/index/media_centre/press_releases/pg_press_releases_20...[/url]


paropilot wrote on Aug 25th, 2009 at 3:51pm:
I left the possible burglars to get on with their work and wrote again to the chief constable telling him so. I added that I would not use any 0845 number either then or in the future.
He replied that the police did not receive any revenue from the 0845 number, and he gave me the Belfast number shown in your database.

The point is not whether an organisation receives payments directly or not, but why they permit their telephone service provider to collect the revenue from callers. This process was accepted when an 0845 number was chosen.

Any revenue received directly merely drives down the amount that the telephone service provider retains. So does the service PSNI gets from its telephone service provider take into account the revenue it gets from callers or is the Service permitting the telephone company to generate unearned profit?

The nonsense about covering it up by telling the old "local rate" lie, just because at one time it had relevance, is all the more sinister.
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« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2009 at 4:19pm by Dave »  
 
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paropilot
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #257 - Aug 25th, 2009 at 4:48pm
 
Yes, PSNI is not only switching off its geographic numbers, it's switching off its police stations as well. Quite a number have closed, and more are due for the chop early next year. Including the one covering the village of Meigh near Newry, where the IRA stopped cars with an armed checkpoint the other day.
At least this will avoid the embarrassment of the two policemen who came on the scene. Armed with a pistol each, they faced a number of men with machineguns and one reportedly with a rocket launcher. They wisely withdrew, as I would have done in their shoes.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #258 - Aug 25th, 2009 at 8:34pm
 
There is good reason for the PSNI to have adopted a non-geographic number. This is clearly a necessary feature of a system that provides operational and service benefits.

The option of a 03 number was not available in 2005, and so the justification in terms of cost to the mobile caller would have been difficult. It was clearly mishandled with the "local rate" nonsense.

That problem no longer remains.

There is no good reason why an appropriately phased transfer to 0345 600 8000, or a new 0300 number, could not have been underway for the last two years. Changing a number after such a short time would however have been politically difficult.

It is not too late to start now. Sufficient time has passed to prevent extreme embarrassment, A new publicity campaign would perhaps be timely to re-enforce the message.

The current information gives no information on call costs, although it does offer District HQ geographic numbers.
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #259 - Aug 25th, 2009 at 9:30pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 25th, 2009 at 8:34pm:
There is good reason for the PSNI to have adopted a non-geographic number. This is clearly a necessary feature of a system that provides operational and service benefits.

The option of a 03 number was not available in 2005, and so the justification in terms of cost to the mobile caller would have been difficult. It was clearly mishandled with the "local rate" nonsense.

I have yet to come across any organisation that wished for there to be a 03-style non-geographical geographically charged number range prior to its induction. It is interesting that the likes of PSNI were happy to peddle misinformation about call charges that fall on citizens telephoning, but when the facts are pointed out, aren't interested in righting wrongs.

paropilot, when Mr Baggott takes over, you might like to raise it with him. The key message is that it puts people off calling, particularly those who rely solely on mobile phones who are those on the lowest incomes.


SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 25th, 2009 at 8:34pm:
There is no good reason why an appropriately phased transfer to 0345 600 8000, or a new 0300 number, could not have been underway for the last two years. Changing a number after such a short time would however have been politically difficult.

Northumbria Police and Tayside Police both changed from 0845 numbers within a year of moving to them.
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« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2009 at 9:36pm by Dave »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #260 - Aug 25th, 2009 at 11:10pm
 
Dave wrote on Aug 25th, 2009 at 9:30pm:
I have yet to come across any organisation that wished for there to be a 03-style non-geographical geographically charged number range prior to its induction.
So have they been misled into wrongly adopting 03 numbers now?

Dave wrote on Aug 25th, 2009 at 9:30pm:
Northumbria Police and Tayside Police both changed from 0845 numbers within a year of moving to them.
Is it then too late for PSNI to do the same?

We can attack and criticise what has happened in the past easily. If we believe that nothing will change, then we must confine ourselves to simply moaning about it. I simply look for reasons to enable change for the better.
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #261 - Aug 26th, 2009 at 9:58pm
 
Source: The News (Portsmouth)

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Save-cash-on-a-call.5584110.jp

Save cash on a call to Hampshire police

Published Date: 25 August 2009

Police are hoping more members of the public will use 101 as a cheaper alternative to the 0845 number.

The 101 number, which was introduced in 2007 as a hotline for anti-social behaviour, is now a police-only line for non-emergencies.

The service has been absorbed into existing police call handling operations, meaning no additional funding was needed.

The charge for the 101 number is a flat rate of 10p whereas calls to the 0845 number can cost much more.

Chief Constable Alex Marshall said: 'The main purpose of the 101 number is to make public services more accessible for non-emergency situations.

'In order to preserve 101 as an easy to remember number for the public to call when it's less urgent than 999, the operational decision was made to retain it as a non-emergency number.

'This not only covers anti-social behaviour but all non-emergency contact with the constabulary.'
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #262 - Aug 27th, 2009 at 1:15am
 
Dave wrote on Aug 26th, 2009 at 9:58pm:
Save cash on a call to Hampshire police

This abuse of a nationally allocated number, by it being used for quite different purposes in different geographic areas, is a demonstration of what is very likely to happen if the application for "111" is granted.

These valuable national resources should not be allocated where there is any danger (as there always was with "101", and will remain with "111") of them not being adopted nationally and with complete consistency. Any local variation should reflect only the way in which the relevant services are delivered locally, not the services covered by the number.

To attempt to misuse such a resource as a justification for retention of a revenue sharing number is not only a further abuse of that resource, but essentially invalid. Nothing can justify the use of subsidy from service users in the provision of a police service.

The people of Hampshire and the Isle of Wight, like us all, are entitled to a standard national (or local, where applicable) rate number, which may be inclusive in their call package as such, with which to contact the Police.

If any local Police Service wishes to make a fixed rate alternative available to those who would find this cheaper, then it should arrange for provision of such a number. Alternatively, the Home Office may wish to redefine the purposes for which the "101" number is used (nationally) within the wide terms of the Ofcom designation that it has been granted. This could be as a fixed rate alternative number for contact only with the full range of services offered by local Police services. It should not however be allowed to walk away from the obligation to secure national implementation, which should have been explicit in the terms under which the allocation was granted by Ofcom.

Great care must be taken to ensure that we do not see a repetition with "111". I believe that the current request from the Department of Health should be rejected at this stage, because it fails to provide adequate reassurances covering consistent national adoption. This should however be accompanied by an invitation to resubmit an application once the plans are further advanced, so that the necessary reassurances can be provided.
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« Last Edit: Aug 27th, 2009 at 1:38am by SilentCallsVictim »  
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New Nottinghamshire Police number - 0300 300 9999
Reply #263 - Aug 28th, 2009 at 5:54pm
 
Source: Nottinghamshire County Council

http://www.notts.embc.uk.com/Lists/Calendar/DispForm.aspx?ID=126

New Nottinghamshire Police contact number

Following public consultation and advice from OFCOM, Nottinghamshire Police are launching a new non-emergency contact number in the autumn.

From the beginning of September 2009, all non emergency telephone numbers will be replaced with one single number - 0300 300 99 99

The call process will remain exactly the same. All calls to the numbers below are currently handled at the same central point by call handlers at the force switchboard and the force control rooms.

This will not change, call handlers will continue to put callers through to the correct police station, department or person as per the current process.

The benefit is that the customer only has one Nottinghamshire Police number to remember, regardless of their geographic location.

[…]
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #264 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 3:20pm
 
Source: Avon & Somerset Constabulary

http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/NewsDetails.aspx?nsid=17688&t=1&...

999 Day - Bath Police celebrate 09/09/09 by putting police in your mobile phone book (Bath)

09/09/09 is 999 day, a unique date. To celebrate the day police in Bath are looking to make sure everyone knows what number to call to reach the police when they need them. Officers are reinforcing the fact that 999 is for an emergency only. Officers on duty on the day will be asking the public to put the 0845 456 7000 non-emergency number into their mobile phone book memory so that they can contact the police at the push of a button.

Superintendent Geoff Spicer explains; "Many people feel it has to be an emergency to call the police, or sometimes they are confused how to call us if they are just asking questions or reporting a crime. Our 0845 number is for anyone to call for non emergency reasons. By making sure people add this number to their mobile phone address books people can feel safe knowing that we are there when they need us."


Why not celebrate 999 day by issuing a geographical or 03 number rather than the rip-off premium number?
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #265 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 10:14pm
 
I find it amusing how the image is actually advertising an 0856 number...

http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/CachedImages/NewsImageNS17688NSU...
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« Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2009 at 10:14pm by jgxenite »  

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #266 - Sep 8th, 2009 at 10:23am
 
jgxenite wrote on Sep 7th, 2009 at 10:14pm:
I find it amusing how the image is actually advertising an 0856 number...

http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/CachedImages/NewsImageNS17688NSU...

This news release has been posted again with the number on the graphic corrected:

http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/NewsDetails.aspx?nsid=17700&t=1&...
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #267 - Sep 9th, 2009 at 3:24pm
 
Source: Herald Series

http://www.heraldseries.co.uk/news/4587845.Police_issue_999_warning/

Police issue 999 warning

Police are using today's unique date of 9/9/09 as an opportunity to remind people not to abuse the 999 system.

Thames Valley Police’s Control Room and Enquiry Department (CR&ED), based across four locations at Kidlington, Abingdon, Windsor and Milton Keynes, has dealt with 324,211 999 emergency calls this year.

Figures show that between January and July 2009 1,631 hoax calls were made to Thames Valley Police.

However this figure does not include calls which are made unnecessarily, either by people abusing the 999 system or people using 999 when they should be calling the non-emergency number, 0845 8 505 505.

[…]



Source: Huddersfield Examiner

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/local-west-yorkshire-news/2009/09/09/police-keen-...

Police keen to offer 999 alternative numbers

IT’S 09/09/09.

And today, a senior police officer is using the unique date to drive home the message that 999 isn’t the only number people can ring to report a crime in Kirklees.

Huddersfield Inspector Mark Broadhead is reminding people if it’s not an emergency then dial 0845 6060606.

The calls are answered in Wakefield and a message taken so that the team of local officers at the contact management unit at Huddersfield police station can call back.

[…]



The enforcement of the message that 999 is only to be used for emergencies is obviously to be commended. Each police force has a responsibility to promote its own non-emergency number, but this should not be a premium (revenue sharing) number.

It is a pity that no police force has decided to use 09/09/09 to launch new neutrally-charged number in place of an 0845 one.
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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #268 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 1:59am
 
There has been no sign of any further action or progress on this matter by Surrey Police who have repeatedly made hopeful sounding noises only to continue to bury their heads firmly in the Surrey sands over the 0845 call cost issue.

As a consequence I have just fired off the following FOI request to the Chief Constable (listed on their website as being the person to make emailed FOI requests to).

Note by the way the fantastic website on this topic (police use or non use of 0845 phone numbers) at www.crimestoppers.org.uk that appears to have possibly been created by one of our members, although it is hard to be sure as the owner of the domain is unfortunately anonymous.  So I suppose it could also be being supported/maintained by a Police Officer who is personally firmly opposed to the of 0845 numbers by UK police forces. Undecided

Quote:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject:      FOI Request - Surrey Police Contact Centre's 0845 Number
Date:      Wed, 16 Sep 2009 02:32:17 +0100
To:      chief.constable@surrey.pnn.police.uk, mark.rowley@surrey.pnn.police.uk
CC:      stuart.lowe@surrey.pnn.police.uk, ian.dyson@surrey.pnn.police.uk, chris.moreton@surrey.pnn.police.uk, george.corral@surrey.pnn.police.uk, sarah.mcgregor@surrey.pnn.police.uk, clare.davies@surrey.pnn.police.uk, simon.pollock@surreycc.gov.uk, SPA@surrey.police.uk


Dear Chief Constable,

FOI Request - Information Relating to Surrey Police's Single 0845 Contact Centre Telephone Number - 0845 125 2222

Despite numerous previous promises to both myself and other local residents by your senior contact centre management staff (see  www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/52717_calls_to_police_no_longer_local_rate and www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2021235_police_may_drop_0845_phone_number and any records you may have kept of my earlier previous telephone conversations with your then acting contact centre managers) to do something about still ripping them off by using a covert premium rate 0845 number for Surrey Police's Contact Centre your Police force continues to apparently remain unrepentant about the use of these covert premium rate telephone numbers and has still not followed the good example set by two thirds of other UK police forces of either never having adopted an 0845 number instead of a normal 01/02 number in the first place or alternatively in seeing the light in more recent times by replacing their 0845 number with an 03 prefixed phone number that is always only charged at normal call rates applicable to ordinary landline numbers starting 01 or 02.  If you doubt the strength of public feeling on this matter then I think you need to refer to the website www.crimestoppers.org.uk (a website not set up by me but seemingly by another unknown campaigner against 084/7 number misuse in the public sector) where Surrey Police is shown to be one of the minority of UK Police forces that still refuse to replace their 0845 number with a cost neutral number to all callers (especially those from mobile phones, public payphones and from overseas). See also the 21 page long discussion thread on this topic at www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1189257846/0  You may possibly also be aware that Surrey County Council replaced all its 0845 numbers with 0345 numbers a number of months ago in response to public dissatisfaction with the additional call charges paid to call 0845 telephone numbers.

In view of Surrey Police's record of longstanding inertia on this subject I now wish to make a formal request under the terms of  the Freedom of Information Act 2000 for copies of any documents held by Surrey Police that contain the following information and/or if the information is not contained in existing documents but is known to Surrey Police for that information to be provided by the relevant officers in the force in possession of that information:-


Continued/..................................
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« Last Edit: Sep 16th, 2009 at 2:11am by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #269 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 2:01am
 
Quote:
1. All documents, emails or faxes prepared internally or externally by or for Surrey Police that presented the original business case for ceasing the publication of longstanding existing local telephone numbers for each division and/or Police station within the Surrey Police area in or around the year 2003 and replacing them all with the single point of contact number for the general public (for all non emergency calls) of 0845 125 2222.  This documentation should include any documents which reveal comparisons of financial savings in the contract price to Surrey Police for the installation and maintenance of telecommunications equipment and telephone lines (including the cost of telephone line rental and outgoing telephone line cost) either directly in the Surrey Police Contact Centre and/or anywhere else within the whole of Surrey Police's operations flowing from the decision to switch to the new 0845 125 2222 contact centre number in comparison to what the same installation and ongoing maintenance price of that equipment and ongoing phone line rental and calls costs would have been had a single local geographic phone number (eg starting 01483) or even an 0800 number been used to provide the new contact centre service.  Whilst the applicant understands that Surrey Police does not receive a direct revenue share from its telecommunications provider from the additional revenue stream that the communication provider benefits from through the use of an 0845 number nonetheless the applicant believes that the use of an 0845 number enabled the communications provider running the services to offer a lower tender for the original equipment installation and ongoing subsequent maintenance than if a geographic number starting 01 or 02 had been used.  The applicant is particularly keen to see any of the original business case documents for the use of the number 0845 125 2222 that confirm whether such choices were part of the factors considered by senior officers at Surrey Police when agreeing to use an 0845 number for the new contact centre with a single contact number.  The applicant also requires to see copies of all tender documents for the new 0845 contact centre operation from rival telecoms providers to the one finally selected by Surrey Police, especially any tenders from alternative suppliers that proposed options involving the use of either a local 01/02 or an 0800 phone number instead of an 0845 number.

2. Copies of any internal or external documents, emails, faxes memos or notes of meetings that may reveal what financial penalties or increased ongoing line rental or maintenance costs would be incurred by Surrey Police if it were to follow the example set by a large number of other UK police forces by replacing its current contact centre number of 0845 125 2222 with one of 0345 125 2222 (this number will have already been reserved for it by its telecommunication service provider under Ofcom's provision for the issuing of numbers in the 0345 number range) so that callers to Surrey Police never pay more for the cost of making that call than if they were calling an ordinary geographic (eg one starting 01483) UK phone number.  This should include any documents which reveal whether the principle reason for a decision being taken to not replace the 0845 125 222 with 0345 125 2222 is because of budgetary considerations including the recent capping of the Surrey Police element of the Council Tax.  Copies of any formal quotations from Surrey Police's current telecoms supplier for changing its 0845 contact centre number to one commencing 03 should also be provided.

3. Copies of any internal or external documents, emails, faxes, memos or notes of meetings that reveal the level of complaints by members of the general public in Surrey about the Police force's use of 0845 numbers in respect of callers having incurred higher additional charges for calling these numbers than ordinary 01/02 numbers, especially the very large number of callers who undoubtedly have to call Surrey Police on 0845 125 2222 from their mobile telephones or from public or private payphones.  This should include any assessment of whether or not some calls to Surrey Police's Contact Centre on 0845 125 2222 have not been made at all either because the caller was deterred by the higher cost of making the call compared to calling an 01/02 number or simply because they did not have adequate available funds to make the call (eg from a BT Payphone where the per minute rate of calling an 0845 number is currently 1800% higher than calling a number starting 01, 02 or 03).


Continued/..........................
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