SAYNOTO0870.COM - Wikipedia

Keith

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Sep 24^th, 2007 at 10:42am

There are (in my opinion) 2 entries in Wikapedia on 0870 and 0845 which are excellent. Very factual, no emotion and a real understanding of the issue. There is no content in the 0844 and 0871 entry so an opportunity for someone who knows more than me to make one.

Interestingly there is a note that anonymous contributors keep removing the link to saynoto0870.com and that the editor feels that this is a valid link and would like feedback as to why it should be removed.

It can't harm to reply as to why it should stay.

I think we should refer people to this site (good explanation of the local and national rate issue for example).

I also wonder why people think it necessary to delete the link. really desperate if it is coming from the industry, but I can't think who else would want it deleted.

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derrick Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,124	Re: Wikipedia Reply #1 - Sep 24^th, 2007 at 11:18am Are these the entries to which you refer? 0870; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0870_number 0845; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0845_number Just thought it would be justified to provide the links
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jgxenite Supreme Member Offline Help us to help you - read the instructions!! Posts: 1,454 Gender:	Re: Wikipedia Reply #2 - Sep 24^th, 2007 at 12:23pm Keeping the saynoto0870.com link is a full time job - believe me, I'm the editor who keeps those links intact. It seems that someone who is on BT has a great dislike of saynoto0870.com and will do everything in their power to remove the links from those articles.
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jgxenite

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Re: Wikipedia
Reply #3 - Sep 24^th, 2007 at 12:26pm

Keith wrote on Sep 24^th, 2007 at 10:42am:

There is no content in the 0844 and 0871 entry so an opportunity for someone who knows more than me to make one.

Regarding those numbers, there is some mention in the Talk page of 0845 and 0870 respectively regarding these number ranges. I don't really know enough about their history to start a new page (I did think about merging 0844 and 0845 together as they are "similar" but decided that would be too much like hard work). If someone from here could provide the relevant background, I'd gladly start work on an 0844 and 0871 page (unless they want to do it themselves).

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a very nice man

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Re: Wikipedia
Reply #4 - Sep 24^th, 2007 at 2:22pm

There was an article in the papers within the last month showing that it was possible to see what ip addresses were amending Wikipedia entries.
It showed that one political party was amending another party's entry, and that several members of the BBC were responsible for editing many items.
Would be nice to see how easy it is to do that trace.

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irrelevant

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Re: Wikipedia
Reply #5 - Sep 24^th, 2007 at 3:05pm

Well 0844 04 and 0844 09 at least started life as "surftime" dial-up internet numbers, where they were actually terminated directly at the local telephone exchange concentrators, (you can have several of these for one "exchange" and that fact gives rise to the situation my then-gf had where of two phone lines in the house, she could use one for surftime calls and not the other as they went to different concentrators. Typically, it was the wrong one that worked..)

Although surftime as a product is now dead, you can see it's legacy in the "i" tariff bands for various 0844 number ranges in the price lists. (the surftime products then gave you 100% discount on these call rates for certain times of the day for a monthly fee.)

Now ... 0820 anybody..? Wink

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irrelevant

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Re: Wikipedia
Reply #6 - Sep 24^th, 2007 at 3:10pm

a very nice man wrote on Sep 24^th, 2007 at 2:22pm:

There was an article in the papers within the last month showing that it was possible to see what ip addresses were amending Wikipedia entries.
It showed that one political party was amending another party's entry, and that several members of the BBC were responsible for editing many items.
Would be nice to see how easy it is to do that trace.

You may be thinking of the item also covered here. The tool referred to is here..

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NGMsGhost

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Re: Wikipedia
Reply #7 - Sep 25^th, 2007 at 10:34am

irrelevant wrote on Sep 24^th, 2007 at 3:10pm:

You may be thinking of the item also covered here. The tool referred to is here..

Which reveals the following for the 0870 Wikipedia page:-

Quote:

name ip diff comment time
Bt-Central-Plus (London, England) - 14 86.137.186.181 40391057 2006-02-20 05:50:48
86.132.98.162 48234581 2006-04-13 05:59:33
86.132.94.82 85371558 2006-11-03 00:22:05
86.140.235.110 86228968 2006-11-07 07:27:53
81.129.193.143 86493629 2006-11-08 14:27:30
86.132.97.190 86964809 2006-11-10 16:59:46
217.42.38.33 87664966 2006-11-14 01:33:04
86.132.106.29 87895697 Taken out Adwords pay per click sponsored (for profit site) 2006-11-15 02:11:23
86.132.105.87 89131291 Removed commercial links 2006-11-21 01:09:09
86.132.91.173 126255166 Taken out commercial links 2007-04-26 22:39:48
217.42.37.243 141224611 Removed commercial ad sponsored link 2007-06-28 18:54:33
86.148.216.237 143603246 Removed commercial ad sponsored link 2007-07-09 23:01:04
217.42.36.229 144004853 Removed commercial links 2007-07-11 17:41:06
86.132.100.187 144508126 [[WPUNDO|Undid]] revision 144484164 by [[SpecialContributions/212.159.100.181|212.159.100.181]] ([[User talk212.159.100.181|talk]]) 2007-07-13 23:58:41
Telewest-Hsd_1-Edinburgh (Bristol, England) - 4 82.41.22.49 42334725 added Ofcom definition 2006-03-05 12:41:54
82.41.22.49 51021773 Removed commercial link to Planet Numbers 2006-05-01 09:22:13
82.41.22.49 82031661 2006-10-17 17:40:24
82.41.22.49 89062696 Add further external links 2006-11-20 19:16:14
Bt-Central-Plus (-, -) - 3 86.140.130.170 46165700 /* External links */ 2006-03-30 14:08:45
86.140.130.170 48122683 /* External links */ 2006-04-12 15:02:41
86.140.130.170 49291718 /* External links */ 2006-04-20 14:47:03
Freedom To Surf (A Pipex Company) (London, England) - 3 83.67.47.90 82382871 inserted external link 2006-10-19 08:17:30
83.67.87.2 119451066 /* External links */ 2007-04-01 08:52:34
83.67.87.2 119451156 /* External links */ 2007-04-01 08:53:25
Rutherford Appleton Laboratory (-, -) - 2 130.246.132.26 114545903 2007-03-12 14:26:20
130.246.132.26 114546008 /* Pricing */ 2007-03-12 14:26:53
America Online (Reston, Virginia) - 1 172.141.4.31 129352585 /* Pricing */ 2007-05-08 21:23:03
Bt-Central-Plus (Bath, England) - 1 81.129.182.146 78706779 2006-09-30 16:43:45
Bt-Central-Plus (Swindon, England) - 1 86.133.247.93 41776349 /* External links */ 2006-03-01 17:48:22
Eclipse Dynamic Adsl Pool (Huddersfield, England) - 1 82.153.102.66 46620721 /* External links */ 2006-04-02 18:10:35
Hotchilli Internet Adsl - Customer Ptp Ips (Chelmsford, England) - 1 195.248.124.223 34038455 2006-01-05 23:41:37
Plusnet Technologies Ltd (London, England) - 1 212.159.100.181 144484164 [[WPUNDO|Undid]] revision 144004853 by [[SpecialContributions/217.42.36.229|217.42.36.229]] ([[User talk217.42.36.229|talk]]) See discussion. 2007-07-13 21:31:20
Skymarket Hosting Network (Hertford, England) - 1 212.84.183.22 38328861 2006-02-05 17:08:22
Zen20030407-Dar-Zen-Adsl (London, England) - 1 217.155.42.123 33992637 Supplier added

An awful lot of edits by BT domains removing the SayNoTo0870 links. But would BT domestic customers also show as BT Central and/or would "BT Central-Plus" mean a Plusnet broadband customer?

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NGMsGhost

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Re: Wikipedia
Reply #8 - Sep 25^th, 2007 at 10:40am

And this is what comes up for the 0845 page using the IP scanner for edits:-

Quote:

Found 44 edits for page '0845 Number'.

[ Close Frame ^ ]
name ip diff comment time
Bt-Central-Plus (London, England) - 12 86.132.96.46 21541478 /* How 0845 calls are handled by operator */ 2005-08-22 02:13:49
86.137.186.181 40388226 2006-02-20 05:23:47
86.137.186.181 40391683 2006-02-20 05:57:12
86.132.90.61 46843994 2006-04-04 01:09:07
217.42.37.86 55885302 2006-05-30 06:58:04
86.132.97.73 62675099 2006-07-08 04:13:43
86.133.55.86 79269183 /* External links */ 2006-10-03 16:18:02
86.132.94.82 85371098 2006-11-03 00:19:35
81.155.198.36 86079812 /* External links */ 2006-11-06 17:23:28
86.140.235.110 86228907 2006-11-07 07:27:25
86.132.90.8 88300224 2006-11-16 22:46:32
86.132.90.8 88300407 2006-11-16 22:47:28
Bt-Central-Plus (-, -) - 4 86.136.26.143 26097755 2005-10-21 14:40:17
86.140.130.170 46165532 /* External links */ 2006-03-30 14:06:59
86.140.130.170 48122823 /* External links */ 2006-04-12 15:03:22
86.134.9.134 54046924 /* External links */ 2006-05-19 15:52:22
Bt-Central-Plus (Swindon, England) - 4 86.134.13.70 35935005 /* External links */ 2006-01-20 09:33:07
86.134.13.70 37371477 /* External links */ 2006-01-30 16:07:40
86.142.109.102 55066064 /* External links */ 2006-05-25 13:45:59
86.142.109.33 63935694 /* External links */ 2006-07-15 10:21:13
Cable & Wireless Telecommunication Services Gmbh (-, -) - 3 84.71.215.29 92823034 /* External links */ 2006-12-08 00:47:52
84.71.215.29 92823356 /* External links */ 2006-12-08 00:49:31
84.71.215.29 92823670 /* External links */ 2006-12-08 00:51:06
Force (London, England) - 3 87.113.1.188 43335703 /* External links */ Removed advertising 2006-03-11 20:59:12
87.113.1.188 43336302 2006-03-11 21:04:08
87.113.1.188 43336561 /* External links */ 2006-03-11 21:06:06
Telewest-Hsd_1-Edinburgh (Bristol, England) - 3 82.41.22.49 42218465 modified language used to describe cost of calls to these numbers 2006-03-04 17:55:46
82.41.22.49 54231253 Removed commercial links 2006-05-20 19:10:20
82.41.22.49 88841026 Remove vandalism 2006-11-19 18:12:37
Eacsltd01-Uunet (-, -) - 2 62.190.6.125 64293017 2006-07-17 14:56:22
62.190.6.125 74335557 2006-09-07 14:25:32
Julia-Porter (London, England) - 2 217.37.82.169 49909462 /* External links */ 2006-04-24 12:20:11
217.37.82.169 81192280 2006-10-13 11:38:29
Static Wan Ip Range Chart Street (London, England) - 2 87.74.42.35 49188534 /* External links */ 2006-04-19 21:49:41
87.74.42.35 49188567 /* External links */ 2006-04-19 21:49:58
Brown & Sharpe Ltd (-, -) - 1 62.173.111.114 39604094 2006-02-14 16:30:54
Bt-Central-Plus (Manchester, England) - 1 86.133.58.19 104070279 2007-01-29 12:38:36
Cable & Wireless Americas Operations Inc (New York, New York) - 1 64.69.191.231 114505885 2007-03-12 09:42:09
Cable & Wireless Telecommunication Services Gmbh (London, England) - 1 195.92.40.49 125858477 2007-04-25 15:38:48
Ftip002751122 Norfolk County Council (Norwich, England) - 1 194.75.238.5 51518168 /* External links */ removed adverts 2006-05-04 12:51:12
Gfn Adsl Solution /32 /31 /30 Customers (London, England) - 1 217.79.113.130 33315424 2005-12-31 00:08:55
Ntl Infrastructure - Leeds (Leicester, England) - 1 81.104.183.251 78305564 2006-09-28 14:26:02
Skymarket Hosting Network (Hertford, England) - 1 212.84.183.22 38328580 2006-02-05 17:06:08
Zen20030414-Dar-Zen-Adsl (London, England) - 1 217.155.199.136 49001752 /* External links */ 2006-04-18 13:49:22

Edits also include NTL or Cable & Wireless apparently but does this just tell us the end user was using an NTL or Cable & Wireless broadband connection or that it was really someone from those actual companies.

The Julia Porter IP address then still points to BT in Ipswich

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jgxenite

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Re: Wikipedia
Reply #9 - Sep 25^th, 2007 at 2:24pm

The person who seems to be making the most recent edits is on the BT network, but from the WHOIS, I cannot determine if they are a BT customer or a retail customer for another company using the BT network. Unfortunately, they seem to think that they don't need to contribute to the on-going discussion, and can just remove the content as they like.

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NGMsGhost

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Re: Wikipedia
Reply #10 - Sep 25^th, 2007 at 3:42pm

jgxenite wrote on Sep 25^th, 2007 at 2:24pm:

The person who seems to be making the most recent edits is on the BT network, but from the WHOIS, I cannot determine if they are a BT customer or a retail customer for another company using the BT network. Unfortunately, they seem to think that they don't need to contribute to the on-going discussion, and can just remove the content as they like.

If one believes content is being altered for malicious reasons is it not possible to ask Wikipedia to apply editorial control in some way so that any request to amend the content of the pages is subject to editorial review first.

I believe this happens with the Wikipedia entry for Bill Gates for instance.

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jgxenite

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Re: Wikipedia
Reply #11 - Sep 25^th, 2007 at 3:45pm

Well yes, you can ask them to semi-protect the article. This means that anonymous users (aka IP addresses) or recently registered users cannot make changes to the page. The articles have been semi-protected before, and that only stopped the user until the block expired. I'll have to wait until some more reverts have taken place before I can ask for further protection for the pages.

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repton3 Newbie Offline Posts: 5	Re: Wikipedia Reply #12 - Sep 27^th, 2007 at 8:10am Mr Anonymous was back again this morning and so I reverted his "let's remove the link to saynoto0870" vandalism. As expected, he didn't contribute to the discussion first.
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jgxenite Supreme Member Offline Help us to help you - read the instructions!! Posts: 1,454 Gender:	Re: Wikipedia Reply #13 - Sep 27^th, 2007 at 8:44am Cheers Repton3. Unfortunately, as I keep saying to the admins (when I try to get the page protected) the "anonymous" user does not wish to contribute to the discussion. They just keep removing the link without regard for the discussion, despite every attempt by myself to get them to join in!
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NGMsGhost

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Re: Wikipedia
Reply #14 - Sep 27^th, 2007 at 9:06am

jgxenite wrote on Sep 27^th, 2007 at 8:44am:

Cheers Repton3. Unfortunately, as I keep saying to the admins (when I try to get the page protected) the "anonymous" user does not wish to contribute to the discussion. They just keep removing the link without regard for the discussion, despite every attempt by myself to get them to join in!

The only surprise so far has been that we have found any Ofcom or ICSTIS domains responsible for the defacement of these web pages. Wink

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