SAYNOTO0870.COM - "Patientline in Critical condition.."

firestop Full Member Offline Do unto others, before they get a chance to do.... Posts: 164	"Patientline in Critical condition.." Sep 29^th, 2007 at 10:06am Did anyone else get a warm glow as they read this in today's Times? Patientline shares hit a new low of just 0.85pence (they were at £1.62 in 2004). They are blaming OFCOM for insisting on the 'introductory message' that precedes calls!!
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derrick Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,124	Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.." Reply #1 - Sep 29^th, 2007 at 11:08am OOOOHWEEE
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bazzerfewi Supreme Member Offline Baz Posts: 580 Barnsley Gender:	Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.." Reply #2 - Sep 29^th, 2007 at 11:54am I did not see the article but it made me
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firestop Full Member Offline Do unto others, before they get a chance to do.... Posts: 164	Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.." Reply #3 - Sep 29^th, 2007 at 2:06pm Here's the link :- http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/health/article25...
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whatever Newbie Offline Posts: 1	Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.." Reply #4 - Sep 29^th, 2007 at 2:32pm Marvellous news. Another one in the eye for rip-off UK. Funny how it's always someone elses fault ie Oftcom. Yeah, maybe you should be allowed to charge people whatever like without warning them. Right! At least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask.
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bbb_uk

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Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.."
Reply #5 - Sep 30^th, 2007 at 12:41pm

Quote:

Patientline said that Ofcom had exacerbated “already challenging” operating environment and added: “The instruction by Ofcom, whereby a message is played to callers to 0700 numbers at the start of calls informing them of the maximum potential cost of the call, seems to have been a major factor in reducing incoming call revenues.

Translated that means, "oh crap now people ringing patients will actually realise the cost of the call and the fact that they're not ringing a mobile number!"

Quote:

The Ofcom decision, which took effect from September 1, 2007, has the misleading effect of telling callers of the maximum cost per minute of an 0700 call rather than the actual Patientline cost, which is always lower and often significantly lower.”

Funny because I know someone who rung a patientline number and got told it cost max 49p/min (which is correct) and from what I was told, the cost message was stated 3 times in all with the first one being the free announcement by the OCP. That would mean that the other two were by patientline and one makes me wonder if it was designed to keep people on the phone even longer!?!

However, I can't confirm that this is correct as I've not rung a patientline number nor do I have any intention of allowing patientline to profit secretely.

Patientline seem to have conveniently forgotten that it was them that brought this upon themselves by using a personal number range which is often mistaken for a mobile number and using it to gain revenue without callers knowing about it.

Had Patientline chosen an appropriate 09x number then this likely wouldn't have happened however that would have meant that many callers wouldn't have rung in the first place knowing that 09x is a premium rate number!

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NGMsGhost

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Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.."
Reply #6 - Oct 1^st, 2007 at 12:30pm

Had useless Ofcom imposed this rule in October 2004 instead of dithering for another 3 years while patients were ripped off then Patientline would have been put in to the Intensive Care ward an awful lot earlier.

Imagine what would happen if 0844 doctors surgeries were forced to make an announcement that this was a non standard call excluded from calling plans and charged at higher rates of up to 5p per minute on a landline and 40 per minute on a mobile phone. Wink

By the way why was this started as a new thread?

There is an existing and very long Patientline thread to which this report should have been added.

Dave or bbb can you please take care of this.

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Kiwi_g Junior Member Offline Posts: 84 Gender:	Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.." Reply #7 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 9:48am In today's Guardian :- http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/nov/28/nhs.news
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NGMsGhost

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Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.."
Reply #8 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 12:05pm

Something not quite right with the quoted share price in that Guardian article.

This is what the FT had to say in today's edition:-

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bb30b30e-9d54-11dc-af03-0000779fd2ac.html

Quote:

Patientline warns on restructuring

By David Blackwell

Published: November 28 2007 02:00 | Last updated: November 28 2007 02:00

Patientline, the hospital phone and entertainment provider, said talks on restructuring its £82.5m debt might leave shareholders with nothing.

The company – which in August reversed after just four months a controversial decision to raise charges for calls from hospital beds from 10p to 26p a minute – saw revenues decline from £21.6m to £16.9m in the first half to September 28, as pre-tax losses doubled to £15.3m. The operating loss before exceptionals rose from £3.2m to £4.5m.
EDITOR’S CHOICE
Patientline warns debt level ‘unsustainable’ - Jun-25
Patients to feel pain as PFI deal backfires - Apr-05
Beware circumlocution and government contracts - Jan-18

Geoff White, chairman, said restructuring the debt was the top priority. “However, shareholders should note that it is uncertain whether any value will be attributable to ordinary shares in the restructuring.”

The company “does have a future”, he added, if the borrowings could be restructured to a sustainable level, allowing it to address the price of incoming telephone calls. The shares recovered earlier sharp falls to close just 4 per cent lower at 1.05p.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2007

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« Last Edit: Dec 2^nd, 2007 at 1:04am by DaveM »

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idb

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Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.."
Reply #9 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 12:35pm

PTL's half-year results available at http://www.patientline.co.uk/downloads/2nd_half_year_financial_report_07.pdf

Including the 'highlights':

Press Release

For release at: 7.00am, 27 November 2007

Patientline plc Announcement of the results for the half-year ended 28 September 2007

Financial Summary

•
Revenue was £16.9 million (2006 £21.6 million)
•
EBITDA before exceptional items was £3.0 million (2006 £6.6 million)
•
Operating loss before exceptional items was £4.5 million (2006 £3.2 million)
•
Cash outflow before financing activities was £1.2 million (2006 £5.0 million inflow)
•
Net borrowings were £82.5 million (2006 £84.6 million)
Operating Summary
•
Bed RPTPD was £0.63 (2006 £0.67)
•
F&F RPTPD was £0.59 (2006 £0.85)
•
Debt restructuring discussions ongoing
•
PPRG report left little prospect of positive outcome

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NGMsGhost Supreme Member Offline The Forum Ghost of NonGeographicalMan<b r /> Posts: 2,720 Surrey, United Kingdom Gender:	Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.." Reply #10 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 1:48pm In summary Patientline is still in the Intensive Care Unit and no one knows if the Patient will make it or not.
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werdies

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Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.."
Reply #11 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:54pm

It won't make it as a company, but it will as a service - it will probably just about last until the early new year, before the existing ordinary shares become worthless when lots of new ones are issued and handed to the crediters - banks - in return for a debt write-off which allows the business to break even in the short term. What will happen after that, no one knows, but it will probably drag on for a long time ad end up with a similar service, under a totally guise with none of the existing management in control. Some front line jobs will probably be safe at least for a while, but anyone senior to this should be getting ready for a career change. Some well known companies are expressing discreet interest in picking it up for a song - one is quite topical and I'm sure you can guess it

SOme of this info comes quite directly from the horses mouth Wink

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« Last Edit: Dec 2^nd, 2007 at 1:05am by DaveM »

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NGMsGhost

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Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.."
Reply #12 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 11:20pm

werdies wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:54pm:

It won't make it as a company, but it will as a service - it will probably just about last until the early new year, before the existing ordinary shares become worthless when lots of new ones are issued and handed to the crediters - banks - in return for a debt write-off which allows the business to break even in the short term. What will happen after that, no one knows, but it will probably drag on for a long time ad end up with a similar service, under a totally guise with none of the existing management in control. Some front line jobs will probably be safe at least for a while, but anyone senior to this should be getting ready for a career change. Some well known companies are expressing discreet interest in picking it up for a song - one is quite topical and I'm sure you can guess it

SOme of this info comes quite directly from the horses mouth Wink

Surely the other likely change is that with the debt written off calls will come down to a politically acceptable (even if not acceptable to us) 10p per minute PhonePayPlus controlled 0871 number for incoming calls without a call price announcement and at that point the service should just about be able to wash its face due to a huge increase in call volumes that will then result and the fact that it is no longer having to meet the cost of the huge debt overhang will also make the difference.

Of course by then it will not be Patientline but like ICSTIS will have changed its spots to try and disguise its checkered and tarnished past.

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« Last Edit: Nov 28^th, 2007 at 11:20pm by NGMsGhost »

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werdies Newbie Offline Posts: 21	Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.." Reply #13 - Nov 29^th, 2007 at 6:52pm Not to 10p, maybe 20p. Incoming call demand is surprisingly price-inelastic - it just creates headlines which affect overall demand, which is damaging. There is a weird air of utter desperation going about ...
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NGMsGhost

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Re: "Patientline in Critical condition.."
Reply #14 - Nov 29^th, 2007 at 7:29pm

So those who cannot get to hospital to see their relatives for whatever reason feel a desperate sense of guilt that over-rides the high calling cost? Or perhaps they are using someone else's phone like a relative's or employer's. Surely the fact that demand is inelastic in a way makes the current level of the pricing all the more unacceptable. I suspect that there is a class of caller who simply never calls at 49p per minute who would call at 10p per minute. Has Patientline ever tried lower prices for incoming calls?

It would seem that ironically the patients themselves feel less need to make the calls (since they do not have to feel guilty about and show support for someone else who is ill) or perhaps being in hospital they are simply better informed about the unaffordable nature of the call prices.

From your comments can I take it that you presently work for Patientline, even if not in a management capacity?

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« Last Edit: Dec 2^nd, 2007 at 1:06am by DaveM »

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