And Ofcom have had plenty of time to realise that total abolition of revenue share and compulsory charging of 01/02 geographic prices on 0870 a la their 03 solution (thus making call price pre-announcements unnecessary) was the only acceptable route for them to take.

And Ofcom have also had last 18 months or more to revise their original proposals to this effect using the burglar announcement problem as the excuse for compulsory universal changes in case anyone was minded to sue them for shutting down an existing profitable scam (not something to worry Madame Reding at the EU it seems in her battle with the mobile phone roaming charges scammers)

But no Ofcom continue to have cosy little chats at the NTS Focus Group with the leading scammers followed by cosy drinks at the pub or meals at the restaurant to discuss what new arcane reasons they can come up with to ever stop the 084/7 NTS ripoff industry being put out of business.

Still no mention on Ofcoms site about the "delay" What an inept bunch.  You can also complain about Ofcom on the site, but who will do the checks, let me guess Ofcom, so that will just be a waste of time.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Nov 9^th, 2007 at 3:54pm:
I'm sorry I can't believe that other landline providers like TalkTalk, Sky would continue to charge the premium for 0870 even when (or if) BT stop!  Both these landline providers generally price match BT even on these premium rate 084x/087x numbers which other landline providers don't.

I agree the likes of VM and some other landline providers may continue to charge the higher premium price at least possibly until their customers start complaining, etc but for their customers to start complaining would mean they'd have to know that BT don't charge extra for calls to 0870.

As for mobile networks then I believe that most, if not all, would continue to charge the excess premium they do now.

With regulatory support for revenue sharing removed (if that's what ofcom actually finally decides to do) then there is no reason for any OCP (Originating Communication Provider) to charge extra for these calls.  Those that do are purely after the huge profit they would then make and will hope that their customers wont complain (or only a few complain).

Right now with the current plans (although it's now possible that Ofcom may do a u-turn or part u-turn) then OCPs implementing an announcment would obviously mean that OCPs are then basically warning their customers of the actual cost of the call which most OCPs try and hide from their customers now.

This announcement will obviously generate complaints but how many depends on just how much knowledge their customers have that their provider are charging extra for the calls when BT aren't and even is included if on an applicable tariff.

BT, as a marketing tool, could easily exploit this by saying that they don't charge extra for calls to 0870 and that they are included (on an applicable tariff) compared to their competitors.  Something like this would cause a significant amount of complaints from customers to their current provider.

Personally, I believe that Ofcom are possibly telling porkies or are looking at worst case.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Nov 9^th, 2007 at 3:54pm:
Is this true? I thought Ofcom have work to do before this changed is enacted.
So surely 0871 & 0870 are legally unchanged so far? 

DonQuixote wrote on Nov 9^th, 2007 at 9:37pm:
Very. When you have a corrupt body, responsible for a major fraud that has netted billions of pounds of NTS revenue over the years, attempts to level the 'playing field' are virtually impossible. When a small but significant gain was in sight (Feb 2008), the corrupt body moves the proverbial goalposts.

I agree that the charging of 800 calls from mobile telephones is shocking. Not only did the operators remove these calls from bundled minutes, they also charged premium rates for such calls. In any other jurisdiction, the regulator would take positive action to stop this scam, especially as the netwoks receive termination fees for such calls.

Your regulator over there is a joke body, pandering to the powerful voices that need NTS revenue.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/groups/nts_focus/ntsletter.pdf

Letter to NTS Focus Group

14th November 2007

Dear Telecommunications Provider,

Next steps on 0870 numbers

I am writing to inform you that a critical development means that there will be a delay in
implementing the changes to the regulation of calls to 0870 numbers, previously intended to
take effect on 1 February 2008.

We have recently identified certain 0870 services, many of which protect human life and
property, where the option to use pre-call announcements causes them to fail. This
potentially endangers the life and security of people who depend on the reliability of such
services.

The problem relates to important alarm and security services which use automatic dialling
systems and are often used to communicate directly with the Police and fire stations.
Industry estimates that there are hundreds of thousands of these services in use in the UK.
These systems eventually “time out” if a recognised phone signal is not heard. Use of a preannouncement
may cause these safety services to fail with potentially catastrophic and lifethreatening
consequences.

For these reasons, I am sure you will understand why Ofcom will not make the changes until
a satisfactory solution can be found. We are already assessing the extent of the problem and
identifying potential solutions.

As you would expect, we will include consumers, consumer organisations and industry
through full public consultation. Ofcom was due to consult on the final regulatory process for
implementing the 0870 changes in time for implementation on 1st February 2008. The
consultation will proceed as planned but will be extended to include potential solutions for
these critical services.

As a result, implementation of the consumer protection measures on 0870 will be delayed
beyond 1st February 2008. Following our consultation, a statement confirming the changes is
planned for spring 2008.

While it is very disappointing to us that a delay is necessary, I am sure you will agree that
Ofcom’s duty in such circumstances is to ensure that this risk is addressed before
proceeding further. The overall objective of Ofcom’s approach remains unchanged: to
increase consumer protection for calls to 0870 numbers.

As you will be aware, following its NTS Review and its Numbering Review in 2006, Ofcom
set out steps to significantly improve consumer protection and price transparency for calls to
numbers beginning 08.

The planned changes to 0870 provide for the price of calls to 0870 numbers to be the same
or less than calls to geographic numbers (01 & 02). These calls should also be included in
call packages. If a communications provider wishes to depart from this general rule, it must
arrange for free pre-call announcements, stating how much the call will cost. Ofcom has also
decided to remove the regulatory support for revenue sharing on 0870 numbers.

In addition Ofcom has been investigating how the use of pre-announcements may impact
similar services running on 070 pre-fixed numbers. From September 2007, telephone
providers have been required to include free pre-call announcements about call costs for any
070 call costing more than 20 pence (either per minute or per call). The requirement applies
to calls to 070 from all providers, on all types of lines.

Meanwhile, Ofcom remains absolutely committed to the objectives of increased consumer
protection and price transparency on both 0870 and 070 calls.

Please forward this notification to your service provider customers.

Yours sincerely

Gareth Davies
Competition Policy Director
Ofcom

A matter of great relevance to the 0870 changes is the dispute between BT and various operators about 0870 call termination rates.

Ofcom has today published a Draft determination to resolve this dispute.

There is a consultation that ends on 30 November 2007. Those who are able to work out what is going on within that time may wish to respond using the online form, or in other ways.


I am just starting my studies and would be grateful for any objective informed comment. (We all have our views about the general character and competence of the parties.)

My initial understanding (which is open to modification) is that Ofcom's position may represent a "back-door" way of Saying "No" to 0870. We still have an indefinite delay and no guarantee that this will ever come in effect - so it is far too soon to celebrate.


The dispute arose because BT intended to take the first option offered by Ofcom and drop its charges for calls to 0870 numbers to that of geographic calls. It therefore proposed to reduce the payment that it made to the Terminating Providers (TCP's) for these calls.

Service providers (SP's) wished to continue benefiting from revenue share on their 0870 numbers and most Terminating Providers were happy to support this.

Originating Providers (OCP's), other than BT, had decided to take the second Ofcom option, keeping their charge rates high to support continuation of revenue sharing and therefore having to use the pre-announcement.

(This can be confusing because many companies are involved as both OCP's and TCP's, although these are distinct roles, and determine their policy to cover both.)


If, as Ofcom proposes, revenue share is effectively denied from calls originated by BT on 0870, then those who are proud to offer a relatively low cost premium rate service would surely be driven onto 0871. Originators who continue to charge more than geographic rates for calls to 0870 would simply be profiteering.

Someone may be able to explain how revenue sharing could continue on 0870 if unsupported by termination charges paid on calls originated by BT. If not, then 0870 is indeed dead.

(Issues surrounding 0871 are covered in another thread.)

David

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 19^th, 2007 at 8:40pm:

What about where BT acts as a transist communications provider? That is where a call originates from a non-BT CP and terminates with a non-BT CP but where the two CPs don't have an arrangement and use BT to carry calls. The amount BT charges the OCP and pays to the TCP, we must assume, will be pretty much what it pays/receives itself.