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The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism (Read 10,218 times)
WhiteMonkey
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The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Nov 22nd, 2007 at 8:51pm
 
This site sees a lot of complaining that companies are doing things the wrong way with these numbers, but I was wondering if I could tap some of the wealth of knowledge of the site members as to the right way to do the following:

With a few friends I'm starting up a company. As is relatively common these days, the business is going to be run over the web, with no physical offices. We are all based in different parts of the UK, but the nature of the business means that we will require fairly frequent phone communication with clients, not least during the Sales stage.

We use VoIP systems, and are going to use an automated switch board system (with direct extensions, don't worry!) to allow people to talk to the most relevant person. Some of the options (e.g. Sales) will ring half a dozen people simultaneously, connecting with whoever answers first (again, where ever they may be). Obviously, if you do know who to talk to you can just call them directly... but if you don't know who to talk to (or don't care, e.g. just call "accounts") then these systems are useful.

Now... the question is: what number to use for the switchboard?

We are based all over the UK, and our services are not location specific. We expect our clients to be based all over the UK, again not in any particular place.

I initially thought 0870 would be a good way to go as I thought it was "non-regional national", but your site has made it quite clear that for some reason the phone companies don't see fit to offer it in inclusive minutes as such, and so it cannot be used for this purpose.

We're not interested in making money on the calls, but also would rather not be charged for client calls (as with 0800 etc.) - it would seem that most companies in our situation opt for a central London number, but to me this seems spurious, especially as London is one of the few places where we don't actually have someone based! (damn those rents...)

If charging for calls is dishonest, so is pretending to be a central London company - some people do think it makes a difference, and we would be "tricking" those people.

Is there a genuine "geographic" number range that doesn't specify location? What would be perfect, it seems from reading the forums here and elsewhere, would be an "030 for the People"!

I hope this topic hasn't been covered before - I tried searching but couldn't find anything. I'm sure someone will link me up if this is old ground.

Cheers,

    WhiteMonkey
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irrelevant
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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #1 - Nov 22nd, 2007 at 9:10pm
 

Then number range you need is indeed 03.   I've got an 03333 number supplied by A&A for £1/month, no incoming charges, delivered via VOIP, but there are other options, including blocks of numbers, and of course other suppliers. 

The only problem you might have is customer awareness of the numbers!  Ofcom seems to have done a massively underwhelming job of telling people about them..

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brucie
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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #2 - Nov 22nd, 2007 at 9:31pm
 
Hats off to you White Monkey. I hope you come up with a solution that fits. It's refreshing to hear of a business that doesn't want to s**** their customers. Good Luck.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #3 - Nov 22nd, 2007 at 9:45pm
 
irrelevant wrote on Nov 22nd, 2007 at 9:10pm:
Then number range you need is indeed 03.   I've got an 03333 number supplied by A&A for £1/month, no incoming charges, delivered via VOIP, but there are other options, including blocks of numbers, and of course other suppliers. 


Only £1 per month and no call forwarding costs.  It seems the 084/7 scammers have been lieing all along about the actual costs of the NTS call redirection system.  The whole lot virtually must have been going in the pockets of the call centres and their intermediate telco call scamming partners.  Of course companies with 084 and 087 numbers are going to be lied to by these scammers and told they will have to pay a fortune to move to 03.

Quote:
The only problem you might have is customer awareness of the numbers!  Ofcom seems to have done a massively underwhelming job of telling people about them..


Indeed that is the problem for the time being.  Even universal connectivity from non BT carriers and mobiles cannot yet be guaranteed  due to the ineptitide of Ofcom in not mandating it.

Despite the peculiar embarassment of the OP about using a London 020 Voip number when most of the staff are not based in that area I would have said that the credibility of 020 numbers in business terms is enormous and importantly universal connectivity by all your callers at normal call rates included in call packages can also be assured.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #4 - Nov 23rd, 2007 at 2:29am
 
irrelevant wrote on Nov 22nd, 2007 at 9:10pm:
Then number range you need is indeed 03.   I've got an 03333 number supplied by A&A for £1/month, no incoming charges, delivered via VOIP, but there are other options, including blocks of numbers, and of course other suppliers.  

The only problem you might have is customer awareness of the numbers!  Ofcom seems to have done a massively underwhelming job of telling people about them.

Bravo. It is great to hear that 03 can work.

We are rightly suspicious of the possibility that Ofcom might have got something half right for once and frustrated by its unwillingness to engage in positive promotion, which it feels is not its job. Ofcom's big mistake was focussing too much on the public (and "not for profit") sectors, without having won sufficient buy-in from potential users and providers. 03 is for everyone.

As with many new possibilities there is a "chicken and egg" problem. If there is little demand, few will move to provide when better returns are available elsewhere. If there is no evidence of provision (at reasonable price) then there will be little demand.

Take off the hair shirt WhiteMonkey, you are in business for a reason, use of 03 should be seen as a positive move to encourage more contact and hence more well-earned profit.

Another problem that Ofcom has not helped with is the need for a single word or simple phrase to describe the charge rate for 03 to help those who wish to market 03 numbers. (Perhaps a children's TV show could run a phone-in competition .....)

David
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NGMsGhost
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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #5 - Nov 23rd, 2007 at 9:52am
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Nov 23rd, 2007 at 2:29am:
As with many new possibilities there is a "chicken and egg" problem. If there is little demand, few will move to provide when better returns are available elsewhere. If there is no evidence of provision (at reasonable price) then there will be little demand.

Another problem that Ofcom has not helped with is the need for a single word or simple phrase to describe the charge rate for 03 to help those who wish to market 03 numbers. (Perhaps a children's TV show could run a phone-in competition .....)


SCV,

To my mind the major problem is that OfCoN have left the existing 084/7 scamming system in place and still do nothing about the repeated peddling of lies by 084/7 users in materials and publications deemed not to be advertising (which are numeorus and all pervasive) that these calls are Lo-Cal, Local and National rate.  For so long as Ofcom does that in connivance with its telco industry chums at its closed door NTS Focus Group meetings then 03 will be doomed to have minimal impact.

If Ofcom had announced a termination date for the use of 08 for anything other than Freephone and insisted 08 revenue share users make a choice to either to go 09 where they disclose the extra charge or 03 where there is no extra charge to the caller then the system would have been transparent and would have worked.

Instead Inland Revenue, NHS Direct etc still perceive there is nothing wrong with 084 use and continue on with it and will tend to only enquire about the cost of moving to 03 from their current telecoms supplier who will lie that it is fabulously expensive to move to 03.  The reality is that it is only fabulously expensive to move to 03 with them (that supplier)as they do not want to lose their revenue share they have become used to.  But with another telecoms supplier the costs of changing would be negligible.

Let us face facts.  Ofcom is still under instructions from the government and major business interests that have its ear to keep old 084/7 numbers in business.  The final reneging on the end date for charging extra for 0870 calls on 1st Feb after over 3 years of previous delays on spurious grounds is the final proof of this.  The publication from PhonePayPlus proposing 0871 numbers at 10p per minute with no call queue limits (or even call queue length announcements) or call price pre-announcements is the further proof of this.  Especially as PhonePayPlus ignored the view of 600+ consumers and went with those of a handful of industry respondents and then has tried to hide those consumer responses and not publish them on their website. Shocked Angry Smiley

Ofcom do not want 03 to succeed.  That is the real truth.

Only when Viviane Reding at the EU is persuaded to start a full force investigation by the EU in to Ofcom for repeatedly cosying up to the UK telecoms industry will Ofcom begin to take its duties to ensure competitive markets for the UK citizen consumer seriously.
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WhiteMonkey
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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #6 - Nov 23rd, 2007 at 1:56pm
 
Quote:
Take off the hair shirt WhiteMonkey, you are in business for a reason, use of 03 should be seen as a positive move to encourage more contact and hence more well-earned profit.

I cannot deny it, but we're not in business to make a profit from phone calls... I'll leave that to BT et al.

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I didn't realise that 03 was even available for non-Gov't/public bodies.

So... perhaps I can get a geographic (02?) swichboard and then pay A&A the £1.18 a month to forward a new 033 number to it?

Out of interest... I've seen it mentioned that there was/will be a "sunrise" period for 03 where people with 0870 and 0845 numbers can get the same number but in 0370 and 0345. Has this happened, or if not any ideas when it will happen?

Thanks again for the informed responses. Much appreciated.  Smiley

    WhiteMonkey
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NGMsGhost
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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #7 - Nov 23rd, 2007 at 2:28pm
 
WhiteMonkey wrote on Nov 23rd, 2007 at 1:56pm:
Out of interest... I've seen it mentioned that there was/will be a "sunrise" period for 03 where people with 0870 and 0845 numbers can get the same number but in 0370 and 0345. Has this happened, or if not any ideas when it will happen?

Thanks again for the informed responses. Much appreciated.  Smiley


I think its only guaranteed to government departments and public sector bodies allowed to use 030.  For commercial companies and 0345 and 0370 you probably have to approach a provider allocated this block and hope they haven't issued it to someone else yet.
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« Last Edit: Nov 23rd, 2007 at 5:12pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Mountainman
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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #8 - Nov 23rd, 2007 at 4:53pm
 
WhiteMonkey wrote on Nov 23rd, 2007 at 1:56pm:
[quote]
Out of interest... I've seen it mentioned that there was/will be a "sunrise" period for 03 where people with 0870 and 0845 numbers can get the same number but in 0370 and 0345. Has this happened, or if not any ideas when it will happen?

    WhiteMonkey


OFCOM have said that numbers in the 034 and 037 ranges are reserved for those who currently use the corresponding 084 or 087 numbers.  A CP can only bring into use a number in these ranges if it is for an end-user currently using the 084/087 number.  There are lots of rules to cover ported numbers but essentially the block will go to the CP with the largest number of 084/087 numbers but they must port out individual numbers or subranges if requested.  The ranges are available now from OFCOM; no end date is set and the requirement to have the corresponding 084/087 at the time the 034/037 number is brought into use is expected to be indefinite.

Nick
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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #9 - Nov 23rd, 2007 at 5:16pm
 

Something tells me that you probably sell these numbers for a living but many thanks anyway for the very useful further info.

The irony is that 0300 is reserved for national and local government but most of them will actually end up with 0345 or 0370 as they will be converting existing 0845 and 0870 numbers.
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« Last Edit: Nov 23rd, 2007 at 8:53pm by DaveM »  

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irrelevant
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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #10 - Nov 23rd, 2007 at 5:58pm
 
WhiteMonkey wrote on Nov 23rd, 2007 at 1:56pm:
So... perhaps I can get a geographic (02?) swichboard and then pay A&A the £1.18 a month to forward a new 033 number to it?

No need to forward it to anything; being VOIP it just is!  At the moment I've just got mine set up on an old d-link adapter - the phone attached is that number, and if I dial out on it the CLI is my 03 number.  I plan to get my asterisk box back up and running again soon, at which point I can make any of my numbers ring on all the extensions.


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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #11 - Nov 25th, 2007 at 1:32pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 23rd, 2007 at 5:16pm:
Something tells me that you probably sell these numbers for a living but many thanks anyway for the very useful further info.

The irony is that 0300 is reserved for national and local government but most of them will actually end up with 0345 or 0370 as they will be converting existing 0845 and 0870 numbers.


Not my line of business  Smiley  I just read up on the OFCOM links from the Andrews & Arnold website when I bought my 033 from them.  There is no requirement to go for 034 or 037, and given the woeful lack of publicity from OFCOM, no real benefit.  I reckon that the few users of 084/087 who choose to remove their snouts from the trough will start again with 030/033 where they can have a contiguous block as large as they like.

Nick
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Re: The right way to do it? Constructive Criticism
Reply #12 - Nov 25th, 2007 at 5:05pm
 
With regard to 030 numbers.

The Jury is out on 0800 - 0300 and 0500 (what is left of them).

The reserve batch is from 0301-0309 for Public Body and Not-for-Profits organisations.

At this particular moment there is a great deal of discussion with-in Ofcom, since a number of - 0800 companies would also like a 0300 for calling package and semi-direct mobile calls.

Futher reading is at:-
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2007/11/nr_20071113
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2007/02/nr_20070213b

There is some talk that Ofcom may take out Television Advertising of this service shortly, but do not hold your breath.

Regards

Neville A Daniels
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