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03 - Cost to ring (Read 100,761 times)
Barbara
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #30 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 11:53am
 
Thank you, SCV - I have just sent a short email to UWDC suggesting they check OFCOM GC17 as it may be helpful.   I have also received an acknowledgement from CLive Hillier saying my email has been passed to those dealing with 03 numbers.
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bazzerfewi
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #31 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 2:48pm
 
Hi there everybody

It appears that there are a number of us that are having problems with the 03 numbers, I researched them with Virgin Media when David (Silent Victim) said they were not aware of the 03 numbers.

Virgin Media a major player in the telecoms industry and they are not aware of the 03 market How daft is that? So if a company like VM have not briefed their staff on the new 03 number range I doubt if any other company will bother to promote the 03 nmbers.

I did contact VM about the 03 numbers and after 10 minutes the operator did inform me that they were included in the talk unlimted package.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #32 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:41am
 
Why is 03 not yet well known and well used?

There is some chicken and egg here, but I would emphasise the latter.

I will try to avoid going into detail and assigning blame (no matter how well deserved), because I want things to move forward. My reading of the situation is as follows.

Ofcom, an independent body, saw a need for the public sector in particular to be able to use NGNs without befitting from revenue sharing or seeing callers subjected to surcharges. It therefore introduced 03 and the surrounding regulations. Because of its independent status, Ofcom cannot demand that anybody adopts 03 numbers, nor which numbers any particular body must use – it can only restrict. It also could not (or felt unable to) define the terms on which service was offered to those who rented 03 numbers from the start. (It may feel better able to intervene if it could be shown that the market is not working properly.)

Because managers in the public sector are used to being told what to do by those with exhaustive powers, providing justification for “their decision” after the event, they looked to Ofcom to provide specific instructions - I have seen many references to this misunderstanding of Ofcom’s role and powers. There are also suggestions that Ofcom did not completely “toe the line” by prescribing a detailed sub-range numbering structure that fitted precisely with proposals in the Varney review.

Published correspondence suggests that there may have been a bit of a spat between Ofcom and those responsible for guiding the administrative activities of the public sector.

We have therefore enjoyed a lengthy (and not unfamiliar) period of inaction, whilst pressure over 0844 and 0845 public sector numbers has rightly mounted, underneath the continuing annoyance about the drawn out 0870 fiasco.

We may have to await further developments on both of these fronts (and others) before organisations start rushing to use 03 numbers. I believe that the telcos are largely ready for this and that remaining glitches will be swiftly resolved once these numbers are being used widely.

I suggest that campaigners focus efforts on pressuring those who may be (or should be) ready to move to 03 numbers to give this move some momentum. I also suggest that we should be ready to be patient and try to avoid drawing unnecessary or disproportionate attention to any difficulties that may be encountered. I am quite sure that there will be plenty; however these should be expected to diminish as more 03 numbers come into use.

David
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NGMsGhost
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #33 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 1:32pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:41am:
Why is 03 not yet well known and well used?


Answer because Ofcom who introduced 03 in August 2007 have done zero so far to publicise its launch to the public or to the contact centre industry.  And why is this?  Due to political pressure that it would be inconvenient for Ofcom's political masters and their call centre business friends if Ofcom did so.  It is notable that Ofcom took full page national newspaper adverts when they decontrolled BT's line rental and call prices to say what a good thing they thought this was but they have made no such equivalent effort regarding the launch of 03 numbers. Shocked Angry Angry Angry

Quote:
I believe that the telcos are largely ready for this and that remaining glitches will be swiftly resolved once these numbers are being used widely.


If I attempt to call Ofcom's 03 contact centre number with the Post Office Homephone I am connected to a message saying they are closes.  But if I try with www.18185.co.uk I get a hopeful message saying 0p per minute but then followed by clickety click and the unobtainable tone.  Someone at www.18185.co.uk has clearly removed the bar on calling 03 numbers but one of www.18185.co.uk's intermediate voip call suppliers is clearly still refusing to carry the call.

Should I file this as a complaint with the Ofcom Contact Centre I wonder? Wink Roll Eyes Cry
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« Last Edit: Jan 12th, 2008 at 1:34pm by NGMsGhost »  

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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #34 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 2:26pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 12th, 2008 at 1:32pm:
Should I file this as a complaint with the Ofcom Contact Centre I wonder?

Yes, but after asking your providers why they seek to prevent you from doing so!

Ofcom rightly expects you to raise issues with providers first to ensure that this is not some administrative error or oversight. Providers are also required to adhere to standards in dealing with customer service matters. This is notwithstanding the fact that low cost providers proudly offer a lower standard than others. If however they fail to meet the minimum requirements, then this could provide grounds for a further complaint to Ofcom.
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« Last Edit: Jan 12th, 2008 at 2:27pm by SilentCallsVictim »  
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NGMsGhost
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #35 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 4:22pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jan 12th, 2008 at 2:26pm:
Yes, but after asking your providers why they seek to prevent you from doing so!


The Finarea telecoms brands such as 18185 do not consider it cost effective to respond to customer comments, even though they provide a form on their website for doing so.

Quote:
Ofcom rightly expects you to raise issues with providers first to ensure that this is not some administrative error or oversight. Providers are also required to adhere to standards in dealing with customer service matters. This is notwithstanding the fact that low cost providers proudly offer a lower standard than others. If however they fail to meet the minimum requirements, then this could provide grounds for a further complaint to Ofcom.


The Finarea telecoms brands do not belong to an Alternate Dispute Resolution procedure such as that offered by www.otelo.org.uk  This is in spite of previous complaints a year or more ago specifically about Finarea's lack of an ADR to Ofcom Director of Investigations, David Stewart.

"qui custodiet custodies" Wink Roll Eyes Cry
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« Last Edit: Jan 12th, 2008 at 4:22pm by NGMsGhost »  

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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #36 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 5:48pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 12th, 2008 at 4:22pm:
The Finarea telecoms brands such as 18185 do not consider it cost effective to respond to customer comments, even though they provide a form on their website for doing so.

Thanks for the consumer tip.

I have been recommended to use these services, but as the provider is are clearly unwilling or unable to operate properly I will avoid them. I would also strongly advise others not to provide credit card details to any organisation like this, if there was little hope of getting a genuine error (which any business is likely to make) corrected.

I do not see their failure to allow access to 03 as any good reason to discourage 03 numbers from being adopted.

Should there be a saynoto18185.com website and a campaign to put these people out of business, or are some consumers happy to benefit from very low cost services run on very tight margins, which cannot fund overheads that could be thought necessary?

There are many such businesses in many sectors, many of which are celebrated and popular (until they crash). Regulators are reluctant to shut them down (as they probably should) because they fear being accused of being in league with the established industry and stiffling competition.

NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 12th, 2008 at 4:22pm:
"qui custodiet custodies"

"caveat emptor"


(Perhaps a new thread is needed to develop this discussion, in English)
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moneysavin
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #37 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 3:41am
 
The problem of charging correctly does not appear to be confined to one or two suppliers,as according to the magys residential cost comparism pages at http://www.magsys.co.uk/telecom/residx.htm
apart from BT all the Major Suppliers are treating 03 numbers as specialised service numbers and charging to call them accordingly. EG.  Talk Talk, Tiscali,Virgin Media,Kingston Comms,  etc

Go to  supplier and run down list,and your see Location Independent (g21) 03/055/056,and prices where they know what they charge. Apart from BT who treat them as Geo Calls,other major suppliers all seem to charge specialised service rates.

Weekend:1.18 per min
Cheap:2.00 per min
Standard:4.89 per min.
All incl of Vat.
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« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2008 at 4:26am by moneysavin »  
 
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bazzerfewi
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #38 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 6:38am
 
If as you state providers are charging for 03 numbers and they are not included in the all inclusive minutes in particular Virgin then they need taking to task because I have been informed on a number of occassions by different sales agents from Virginmedia that 03 minute are included in the talk unlimited package.

I have not had cause to use an 03 number as yet but this issue appears to be anther service that has been launched half heartedly. Surely all providers should be bound by the Ofcom rules and if they are providing a telecoms service they should provide it within the guidlines stated.

Baz

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bazzerfewi
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #39 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 7:16am
 
Apologies in advance I have made a number of spelling errors in the my last posting:-[
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NGMsGhost
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #40 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 11:08am
 
moneysavin wrote on Jan 13th, 2008 at 3:41am:
apart from BT all the Major Suppliers are treating 03 numbers as specialised service numbers and charging to call them accordingly. EG.  Talk Talk, Tiscali,Virgin Media,Kingston Comms,


Yes they might class them as Special Rate Services numbers as technically speaking they are not geographic numbers in their call routing methods.  But what actual prices are they charging on phone bills?  I bet this turns out to be the same as an 01/02 number.
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bazzerfewi
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #41 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 12:04pm
 
As far as I understand it all 03 number should be charged at the same rate as 01/02 numbers.

I have not had a definitive answer though to my question, Virgin say that 03 minutes are included in the call unlimited package and other operators say they are not included.

Surely this should be mandatory otherwise the 03 range will not work in the way it was intended

Baz
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NGMsGhost
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #42 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 12:08pm
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Jan 13th, 2008 at 12:04pm:
Surely this should be mandatory otherwise the 03 range will not work in the way it was intended


According to the rules bringing in 03 numbers it is compulsory to charge the same as for 01/02 calls and to include the calls in inclusive call plans.

Unfortunately Ofcom seems to have made no effort whatsoever to ensure this is universally understood and nor do any of the telcos seem to live in fear of offending Ofcom rules because it almost never fines anyone and when it does those fines are always derisory and laughable.
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bazzerfewi
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #43 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 12:15pm
 
If that is the case then I say we boycott the 03 numbers just as we boycott the 08 numbers because again the public are being ripped off.

If this was the financial services industry heads would roll, as it is being missing sold?


Baz
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: 03 - Cost to ring
Reply #44 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 12:21pm
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Jan 13th, 2008 at 12:15pm:
If that is the case then I say we boycott the 03 numbers just as we boycott the 08 numbers because again the public are being ripped off.

NO NO NO

Is anyone actually being ripped off?

Ofcom has done a poor job (no job at all) in promoting use of 03 and information about it.

Very few numbers are being used and so there is no pressure for telcos to get things right as they undoubtedly would if it became a serious issue.

"Ofcom compliance" is taken very seriously in terms of public reputation by those who rely on it, if not out of actual fear of penalty.

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