derrick wrote on Feb 26^th, 2008 at 12:05pm:


It never seems like I make more than the minimum number required but when I examine my 1899 bills I find I am persistently paying more for 01/02 calls per month than I would with a fixed price package from www.yourcalls.net

It is all those cases where it is an answerphone or the wrong number etc that lead to this being so.

This is only since 1899 charged 5p per call.  When they charged 1p per call via 18866 it was of course hugely cheaper than an unlimited 01/02 calls package.

I am reluctant to go off-topic by addressing the subject of this thread, but I would wish to repeat my point by asking what is the premium that these alternative providers charge for calling 0844 numbers?

It may be said that the premium charged by BT is reducing to 1p per minute, but that is to ignore the effect of those who are at home during the day switching onto option 3, or some other alternative. The per-minute element of the cost of calling geographic numbers is increasing by nearly 25%, whilst the cost of option 3 is reducing.

The break even point is around 1 5-minute call per weekday, after which one may make as many other geographic calls (of up to one hour) as one wishes for no further charge. This makes it very attractive for those at home during the day, who represent a significant proportion of any GP’s most frequent patients. (The same point applies to other public services using 084 and 087 numbers.)

Notwithstanding valid complaints about BT and Ofcom, the issue here is about the abuse of revenue sharing by GPs. The Department of Health review which is underway may provide the chance for something to be achieved, if efforts can be focussed on this point.

NGMsGhost wrote on Feb 26^th, 2008 at 12:46pm:


Sorry - by "premium", I meant over and above the cost of 01/02 calls. That is the point at issue in this thread.

NGMsGhost wrote on Feb 26^th, 2008 at 1:28pm:

I raised the question as the tariffs of various other providers were introduced to a thread about the premium for calling GPs on 0844. I have made the point about the relevant upcoming position with respect to BT, I was hoping that those who introduced discussion of other providers would be able to do the same.

Whilst the upcoming BT changes will, I believe, encourage many to adopt option 3, they may encourage others to take up alternatives. I had hoped that those who are experienced users of these providers, with a concern about use of g6 0844 numbers, might themselves know the relevant prices.

I have attempted to use the Magenta tables in the past, but they are not sufficiently detailed and have been seen to be inaccurate.

NGMsGhost wrote on Feb 26^th, 2008 at 4:48pm:


The large majority would be charged more then 3p connection from a landline as BT and Talk Talk charge 6p connection,and Virgin Media now charge 7p i believe.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 26^th, 2008 at 5:50pm:


SCV,

My dear friend this all sounds frighteningly intense and stressful after your recent health scare that I understand forced you to use NHS Direct for real.  Shouldn't you be laying off this kind of subject matter for a while because morally righteous though it undoubtedly is unfortunately it is not at all good for the soul because of the unscrupulous - we are up against who will stop at absolutely nothing to hang on to their 084/7 gains.  Also hasn't Ofcom's alleged short term postponement of 0870 price changes (suprise, surprise not now becoming long term) already told you that we are pushing water massively up hill here.  MPs ask questions about these numbers month in and month out but still Geoff Brighton and his cynical henchmen at Ofcom characterise this as the concern only of a small bunch of extremists.

Important New Labour friends in high places make vast amounts of money from this swindle and they will stop at absolutely nothing to leave it in place.  The only thing that will and can stop it is action from Madame Viviane Reding at the EU and I think it is in that direction we should really be turning our attentions.

The latest 084/7 price revisions are of course made precisely to divide and confuse, especially for instance making all 01/02 calls on BT Option 1 charged at a per minute rates in the weekday evening, thus weekening the case that 0844 is much more expensive at this time.

The angle we need to concentrate on is the exclusion of 084/7 from fixed price call packages that we will argue all the unemployed and retired on low incomes are generally inclined to take up because they are at home so much and thus make a lot of landline calls.

Dave wrote on Feb 26^th, 2008 at 7:01pm:

We pay more than double the line rental so as to pay double the connection charge.  Truly scandalous.

I think I must try to find out what connections fees www.yourcalls.net charge for 084/7 as nowhere on their website is this made clear.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 26^th, 2008 at 11:11pm:


My Dear SCV,

I am sorry if showing proper concern for your state of health is taken as an unnecessary personal intrusion.  I only made the point because the normal course of action after any such health problem is to reduce one's level of stress and what could be more stressful than trying to worry if NEG could weadle their way around the self evident fact that 0844 is not a normal priced phone tariff.

With great respect you continue to play their game by worrying yourself excessively whether by cunning games with lower connection fees on the BT Light User Scheme (which almost no one makes any calls on) there may not be some rare instance in which 0844 is cheaper to call than an 01 or 02 number.

One needs to focus on the core issues applicable to 99% of those calling the numbers and which explains why 0844 numbers incur such wrath:-

(a) 0844 is excluded from 01/02/03 bundled call packages

(b) 0844 is violently more expensive to call from a BT Payphone and many mobile phone deals.  It is never cheaper to call on a mobile than 01/02

(c) There is a revenue share passed to the doctor's surgery to pay for their phone system at the point of use.

NEG are a bunch of twisting charlatans and they have mates in the telecoms industry who are assisting their current efforts to twist things.

You need to focus on the key issues which are overwhelmingly against these numbers rather than becoming obsessively worried about NEG's devious attempts to shoot us down.

What we need to do is to get the 90% of the doctors who have not gone to 0844 to speak out more against their unprincipled money grabbing colleagues who have and how they feel their actions are totally reprehensible.

Searching endless telecoms tariffs is not the way to go to try to win the argument.

SCV you are a must jovial chap when met in person so I am always perplexed by your forum persona which has always made me think you were some kind of supremely pedantic boffin.  How is this reconciled with the chap we met at the Information Tribunal who was guffawing his way with mirth through much of the hearing.  I didn't take you then to be a chap to lie awake at night worrying if there was just one tariff at one time of day for some narrow user group where due to recent BT slights of hand 0844 was cheaper than an 01/02 number.

Focus instead on things like TalkTalk's Broadband product which bundles free 01/02 calls too but excludes 0844 numbers.  Ditto BT's now very reasonable Option 3.

Looking at the evidence is old Ofcom speak for excuses to take no action.  It is not a real hunt for the truth.  I would have thought by now that you would surely have realised that.