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I run a business and I want a non-geo! (Read 23,094 times)
yesbut
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #15 - Mar 29th, 2008 at 1:05pm
 
many thanks for helping me..I've got to out now so will do some research later on the numbers. Cheers, much appreciated.

To repeat: ISDN is still the best option for the very specialist needs of radio station remote interviews and Voiceover sessions. Please don't dismiss us by saying that you have the answer and we (the BBC, 1000 radio stations and 1000 voiceover studios) are just being silly and stuck in the mud. If you are truly interested the nearest IP can get to our specialist needs of a LIVE undelayed rock solid connection between audio codecs is via Source Connect or audiotx. But they are not there yet. When they are we will all joyfully move away from ISDN. If we followed your advice now we'd be out of a job, and you might notice a few live sports reports and interviews and radio discussions with Professor X in New York - would suddenly disappear.

And so, since I make enough from ISDN to cover the costs of ISDN..I might as well get my telephony needs from it at the same time, no?

Thanks again for your help.
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Minardi
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #16 - Mar 29th, 2008 at 2:55pm
 
yesbut wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 1:05pm:
many thanks for helping me..I've got to out now so will do some research later on the numbers. Cheers, much appreciated.

To repeat: ISDN is still the best option for the very specialist needs of radio station remote interviews and Voiceover sessions. Please don't dismiss us by saying that you have the answer and we (the BBC, 1000 radio stations and 1000 voiceover studios) are just being silly and stuck in the mud. If you are truly interested the nearest IP can get to our specialist needs of a LIVE undelayed rock solid connection between audio codecs is via Source Connect or audiotx. But they are not there yet. When they are we will all joyfully move away from ISDN. If we followed your advice now we'd be out of a job, and you might notice a few live sports reports and interviews and radio discussions with Professor X in New York - would suddenly disappear.

And so, since I make enough from ISDN to cover the costs of ISDN..I might as well get my telephony needs from it at the same time, no?

Thanks again for your help.


Please, don't dismiss what he is saying. ISDN is still the muts nuts for remote interview links and studio quality voice. I've dabbled in the radio industry, and its still as widely used as he says.
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« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2008 at 2:56pm by Minardi »  
 
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FLG
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #17 - Mar 29th, 2008 at 3:36pm
 
ISDN is from the dark ages, but it is a reliable safe option for steady data stream requirements.

It is about time other mediums were found, and more so as ISDN is being made obsolete.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #18 - Mar 29th, 2008 at 3:43pm
 
Minardi wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 2:55pm:
Please, don't dismiss what he is saying. ISDN is still the muts nuts for remote interview links and studio quality voice. I've dabbled in the radio industry, and its still as widely used as he says.


I think it is still widely used because these broadcasting outfits are rather slow to change.  I would have thought that with VPNs and business broadband products etc available it is still entirely possible to replace ISDN with an IP based solution that is higher quality, cheaper and more reliable.

A large number of news reporters from places like Iraq now use a video over IP webcam type link because even though the picture is not as good as a direct satellite feed it is better than the alternative of only having an audio link because the cost of a satellite link and a professional camera unit is too high to be affordable.

If IP is as unsuitable for voice as those in the broadcasting trade seem to make out then how come BT is switching over their entire UK telephone network to an IP based platform by 2011?
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yesbut
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #19 - Mar 29th, 2008 at 5:25pm
 
well, how many ways do we have to say this before you accept that possibly - on this one small area - you maybe under-informed?

ISDN is still used for live broadcast-quality duplex voice because nothing else works as well. No, it really doesn't. It would be nice if it did, but it doesn't, not yet.  Nobody is holding up the transfer due to laziness or slackness or a fit of pique!

When there's an alternative that works...we will all switch. If BT forces us all off ISDN before a replacement is ready then we are all stuffed.

Sheesh..we - the VO's - have been talking about this dilemma obsessively for three years now. Just accept that we have explored what's out there eh! This dark talk of ISDN being ready for the chop only except that we are slow to change, and me being an 0870 salesman..just makes you look a bit um paranoid. Again, I thank you for your help and respectfully ask for more of it if you have any other ideas for someone who has an ISDN telephony system for a very good reason - and wanting to get entrepreneurial by starting up enterprises whilst keeping costs down.

Many thanks

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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #20 - Mar 30th, 2008 at 9:19pm
 
I believe the BBC has a somewhat purist attitude over these matters that does not generally tally with practical needs or real life.

For several years the BBC insisted on transmitting BBC Pariliament in only one quarter screen on Freeview and showing only two out of six interactive news feeds on BBC News 24 solely on purist grounds that it would degrade picture quality on other channels.  In the end the reality proved to be that the BBC had been postponing investing in newer transmission equipment that could make more efficient use of existing bandwidth.

I expect the clinging on to the use of ISDN with live audio feeds will prove to be the same kind of issue.
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yesbut
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #21 - Mar 30th, 2008 at 9:53pm
 
yes, yes of course you are right

how silly of us to cling to our purist ways, just because they work. Roll on the revolution where my practical needs in real life are determined by some ill informed dolt on an internet discussion board.

I have no idea what your beef is with the BBC - I am sure that your story is right in every particular but I doubt very much that they are single-handedly stopping some automagical ISDN solution emerging.  I can assure you that for me and the other voiceovers ISDN is the best solution in the marketplace right now.

And I'm more than a little peeved discussing this issue with someone who cannot learn anything from anyone else, it suggests that maybe your advice on any subject may not be all that good. Also, it is not the subject of this thread.

Sorry to be frank, you are obviously a well established member of this forum but you are making a bit of an ass of yourself by not accepting that anyone else might know anything about telephone lines in the UK.

So I'll try one more time:

I have an ISDN phone system...which does mean I can cheaply get lots of new 0208 numbers for my new businesses (MSN's I think they are called)..but I have to move house=office at least twice in the next few years..I'm scoping out what my best options are in non-geo and any more advice is gratefully received.

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yesbut
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Reply #22 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 6:30pm
 
right I have calmed down now

sorry that I was a bit...er....forthright in my posts above. Was just a bit frustrating - anyway am happy to drop the subject!

thanks for the PM's offering support/advice - only just seen them (didn't get an email alert) and have just tried to reply but a message says this forum only allows you to send a PM (or even reply to one) when you have made 20 posts!
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NGMsGhost
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #23 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 6:51pm
 
yesbut wrote on Mar 31st, 2008 at 6:30pm:
but a message says this forum only allows you to send a PM (or even reply to one) when you have made 20 posts!


How about

This is my first forum post
This is my second forum post
This is my third forum post
............
This is my 20th forum post

As to the commetary quality issue I'm sorry if I have upset you but surely a high quality business broadband connection on a very low contention ratio must be able to deliver a service as good as a measly old 64k ISDN line?

I don't wish to sound unfriendly but the whole courts service has still yet to adopt email purely because nobody forces them to get their fingers out and resolve the issue.  The BBC also only uses 084/7 numbers because its damn hard to ever get a sensible answer about who is responsible for sanctioning this outrage.
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yesbut
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #24 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 7:00pm
 
great

well in answer to your question I do have a broadband connection as well, our industry has investigated the IP alternatives to ISDN for duplex broadcast quality voice and no there is nothing that works properly yet for our specialist needs. You never know - if you personally rip up all our ISDN lines you may propel the market to produce a solution a little bit quicker...just don't get caught selling the copper eh Wink


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NGMsGhost
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #25 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 8:44pm
 
yesbut wrote on Mar 31st, 2008 at 7:00pm:
if you personally rip up all our ISDN lines you may propel the market to produce a solution a little bit quicker...just don't get caught selling the copper eh Wink


Well it won't be me that does that will it?

It will be BT and their 21st Century Network Plans.  Surely ISDN won't be available once BT's 21st CN comes along will it?
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pw4
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #26 - Apr 4th, 2008 at 3:33pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Mar 31st, 2008 at 8:44pm:
Surely ISDN won't be available once BT's 21st CN comes along will it?

CN21 has already arrived. ISDN works over it. It works because telephony has consistent bandwidth requirements and BT can guarantee the QOS required over its network, and that is not possible over the public internet.

I can confirm that, for several reasons, ISDN is still the most suitable medium for ad-hoc connections for broadcast quality audio.

This has taken BT by surprise (again - just as it did with music landlines, and with Home Highway) and the ISDN2 and Business Highway migration (to ISDN2e) has missed its deadline.
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yesbut
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #27 - Apr 4th, 2008 at 3:38pm
 
interesting...thanks for filling us in on the details

Yes the BT migration from Home/Business Highway to ISDN2e was a pathetic, shameful, nigh-on criminally mismanaged shambles. The Voiceover community was baffled by the sheer scale of their incompetence on this issue!

(oh and thanks again for those who offered help on PM, am abroad at the moment but will be in touch when I get back - very grateful for kind offer)
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pw4
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #28 - Apr 4th, 2008 at 4:00pm
 
yesbut wrote on Apr 4th, 2008 at 3:38pm:
Yes the BT migration from Home/Business Highway to ISDN2e was a pathetic, shameful, nigh-on criminally mismanaged shambles. The Voiceover community was baffled by the sheer scale of their incompetence on this issue!

Don't get me started! The migration engineer was here only three hours ago, and the second directory number on one of the 'upgraded' lines no longer worked. And he couldn't fix it because he's Openreach, not BT - he didn't even know that it is a BT line. (Fixed just now - the missing number has been added to the MSN list). And that on top of them saying - over a year ago - that only DASS2 would be affected, presumably they forgot that Q.931 had been an option on the IMUX ISDN2.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: I run a business and I want a non-geo!
Reply #29 - Apr 4th, 2008 at 4:22pm
 
yesbut wrote on Apr 4th, 2008 at 3:38pm:
The Voiceover community was baffled by the sheer scale of their incompetence on this issue!


Oh surely they cannot have been surprised bearing in mind that this is BT we are talking about here.  Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Apr 4th, 2008 at 4:22pm by NGMsGhost »  

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