SAYNOTO0870.COM - Hall of Fame (including Hall of Shame)

Dave

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Re: Hall of fame
Reply #15 - Jul 12^th, 2008 at 1:43pm

jgxenite wrote on Jul 12^th, 2008 at 1:40pm:

Could this post be stickied alongside the Hall of shame? Otherwise all people see is the Hall of shame and not the one congratulating the companies that have changed to 03 numbers.

That's a possibility and I do think it needs making more prominent. There are a lot of stickies meaning that there's less normal topics shown.

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evilmcwoo Newbie Offline Posts: 14 Essex Gender:	Re: Hall of fame Reply #16 - Jul 12^th, 2008 at 2:32pm I am sure that I heard Chappers and Dave say on BBC Radio 1 this morning that they have changed their number from 08700 100 100 to 03700 100 100... it could have been my ears playing tricks on me what with it being horrendously early and all.
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Dave

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Re: Hall of fame
Reply #17 - Jul 12^th, 2008 at 4:36pm

evilmcwoo wrote on Jul 12^th, 2008 at 2:32pm:

I am sure that I heard Chappers and Dave say on BBC Radio 1 this morning that they have changed their number from 08700 100 100 to 03700 100 100... it could have been my ears playing tricks on me what with it being horrendously early and all.

Yes, it has been discussed that the BBC is in the process of moving from 0870 to 0370.

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evilmcwoo Newbie Offline Posts: 14 Essex Gender:	Re: Hall of fame Reply #18 - Jul 14^th, 2008 at 8:30am fan dabby dozee
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Fusion Newbie Offline Posts: 20	Re: Hall of fame Reply #19 - Jul 24^th, 2008 at 7:39am Hall of Fame, great idea! Just wondering if there is a separate 'Hall of Fame' for the few companies that do publish a geographical alternative for their 08xx numbers. Particular pressure should be applied for Government departments to do this in all cases.
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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Hall of fame
Reply #20 - Jul 24^th, 2008 at 8:35am

Fusion wrote on Jul 24^th, 2008 at 7:39am:

... publish a geographical alternative for their 08xx numbers.
Particular pressure should be applied for Government departments to do this in all cases.

I have to disagree.

There may be a case for publishing a 0845 number as an alternative to a 03xx or geographic number for those who may be able to take advantage of BT's perverse discounting policy whilst it remains in force. There are however questions about whether the cost of doing so is justified and how callers should be advised about which number to call. Inaccurate, out-of-date or incomplete advice would be open to justified criticism.

Where it is fundamentally wrong for taxpayers to be subsidised by fees levied on service users through use of revenue sharing numbers, this is in no way made proper by taxpayers paying for the cost of a geographic alternative.

Where a service benefits from use of features available on non-geographic numbers, it is unacceptable for a cheaper, inferior, "second-class" alternative to be provided.

Private sector companies have a duty to secure the highest prices and lowest costs they can so as to provide profit to their shareholders. It is therefore proper for saynoto0870 to undermine these efforts by publishing alternatives in the interests of their consumers. In the case of public sector organisations the relationships are fundamentally different.

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« Last Edit: Jul 25^th, 2008 at 8:03am by SilentCallsVictim »

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loddon

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Re: Hall of fame
Reply #21 - Jul 25^th, 2008 at 7:50am

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 24^th, 2008 at 8:35am:

Where a service benefits from use of features available on non-geographic numbers, it is unacceptable for a cheaper, inferior, "second-class" alternative to be provided.

This is an interesting point. Whenever I dial the geo alternative as provided on this site I invariably find I am receiving the same welcome messages, placed in a queue with musak or meaningless irritating messages about my call being important to them etc. It invariably feels like the same queue as all the poor 084/7 pundits are waiting in. In other words, the company I am calling appear to be getting the same facilities whether I dial 084/7 or a geo number. Sometimes they appear to be aware that I have used the geo number and not their rip-off number and yet I have been messaged, queued and managed by their system.

So my questions are, and this is not rhetorical, I really want to know: ---

How does this work?
How is it that dialling the alternative geo number still seems to put the caller through the normal sequence of events before they get to talk to anyone?
Does the receiving company/organisation get all the same call stats, routing options and information as they get for the 084/7 numbers?

Is there someone in this Forum who works in the industry who can expertly enlighten us?

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« Last Edit: Jul 25^th, 2008 at 7:50am by loddon »

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SilentCallsVictim Supreme Member Offline aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms Posts: 2,494	Re: Hall of fame Reply #22 - Jul 25^th, 2008 at 8:08am loddon wrote on Jul 25^th, 2008 at 7:50am: I really want to know: --- Good questions; to which I would add ... How can a public body justify the expense of renting two numbers that deliver the same service?
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Barbara

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Re: Hall of fame
Reply #23 - Jul 25^th, 2008 at 9:52am

I have a point to make on this, and I know SCV & I disagree here, but I would still rather have a geo no option to call even if it did mean that my call was not deal with in the same way or even if I received "inferior service" as my priority is not to pay for the call as I have an inclusive package. However, like loddon, I have never experienced any difference in treatment, indeed since I have used geo nos from this site as alternatives, I generally find that I get through quicker than on the NGN. The publication of geo alternatives gives me a choice, particularly when I have no choice of provider (eg local authorities, govt departments). Obviously, the best alternative is for them all to move to 03 or return to geo nos; I would rather get an engaged tone & have to call back than be in a queue on an NGN. As for teh cost of renting two numbers, is this actually the case as I understood that NGNs generally/frequently have underlying geo numbers anyway?

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derrick

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Re: Hall of fame
Reply #24 - Jul 25^th, 2008 at 10:01am

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 25^th, 2008 at 8:08am:

loddon wrote on Jul 25^th, 2008 at 7:50am:

I really want to know: ---

Good questions; to which I would add ...

How can a public body justify the expense of renting two numbers that deliver the same service?

As Barbara also says below; - "As for the cost of renting two numbers, is this actually the case as I understood that NGNs generally/frequently have underlying geo numbers anyway?"

I have an 0870 & an 0844 number, plus of course my geo number, which is the underlying number for the NGNs, I pay no rent of any description to the 2 NGNs,(nor did I pay any set up fees), and receive payment when anyone calls them,(banks,building societies Government departments, etc).

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Hall of fame
Reply #25 - Jul 25^th, 2008 at 10:16am

There may not be as much disagreement as is suggested.

If a geographic and non-geographic number give access to the same service, what is the justification for a public body incurring cost and creating confusion for some by renting and publishing the non-geographic number?

If there is no cost and the only purpose is to save money for taxpayers by getting a subsidy from service users, then is it morally right to "steal money from taxpayers" by publishing alternatives?

Publishing alternatives on saynoto0870 must have the objective of undermining unnecessary use of non-geographic numbers by the public sector, so as to cause them to be withdrawn. Except in highly controlled and special circumstances, it is not sufficient for a service provider to simply publish alternatives.

I do fundamentally disagree with the idea that those who can afford to pay more should have access to a higher standard of public sector services. In the private sector the situation is quite different; consumer choice based on price is fully acceptable and is the basis for competitive markets.

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« Last Edit: Jul 25^th, 2008 at 10:22am by SilentCallsVictim »

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Dave

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Re: Hall of fame
Reply #26 - Jul 25^th, 2008 at 11:47am

loddon wrote on Jul 25^th, 2008 at 7:50am:

… Whenever I dial the geo alternative as provided on this site I invariably find I am receiving the same welcome messages, placed in a queue with musak or meaningless irritating messages about my call being important to them etc. It invariably feels like the same queue as all the poor 084/7 pundits are waiting in. …

It has become apparent to me that those GP surgery numbers which we do have seem to work in that way. I refer to those which are likely to be NEG's Surgery Line, that's those on 0844 477 numbers.

When calling the 0844 numbers, they generally answer with a message "Welcome to such and such a surgery." and then go to hold music (or secondary ringing tone). After about 5 seconds it then says "You are now connected to such and such a surgery" followed by menu options.

When you call the underlying geographical number it answers with "You are now connected to such and such a surgery" followed by menu options. In some cases I know that these numbers are definately part of DDI blocks as others in the range were submitted and I changed the last digit to a 0 to find the general "Surgery Line" number.

This suggests that IVR is based at the surgery. Some other DDI numbers have the answering service "IP Office".

So does this mean that the 0844 numbers are just a front to generate revenue from the caller as well as charging them straight after dialling the last digit - ie no ringing tone? Huh

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Hall of fame - Pioneer Reply #27 - Aug 7^th, 2008 at 12:27pm Pioneer now has a 0330 number for customer relations.
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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Hall of Fame (including Hall of Shame) Reply #28 - Sep 27^th, 2008 at 11:46am G Fulford & Co structural engineers of Gloucester must be commended for going to 0330 3000 123. From what I can gather, they have moved and have decided to go with a non-geographical number at the new location. See Yell.com listing.
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reserved

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Re: Hall of Fame (including Hall of Shame)
Reply #29 - Oct 8^th, 2008 at 12:57pm

Greenbee.com (Services selected by the John Lewis Partnership) on their contact pages give 01/02 alternative numbers for their 0800 & 0845 numbers.

See; http://www.greenbee.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?langId=-1&stor...

Also give this explanation: Calls to 0800 numbers are free from BT landlines and calls to 0845 numbers are charged at local rates. Charges may vary if you call 0800 or 0845 numbers from your mobile phone.

If you would like to use an alternative to 0845 or 0800 numbers, see our alternative numbers.
> Alternative numbers

Sad

Not 100% correct though!

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« Last Edit: Oct 8^th, 2008 at 12:58pm by reserved »

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