SAYNOTO0870.COM - URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Members

NGMsGhost

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #30 - Jun 11^th, 2008 at 9:30pm

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Where is the logic or possible rationale for this strategy when, as I understand it, all of the BBC's incoming and outgoing calls pass through Cable & Wireless and all of its large call centres are run for it by Capita. So why on earth should some calls to the BBC continue to command a ripoff premium rates and be either impossible or problematic to make from outside the UK (especially 0844 and 0871) while other numbers are now finally returned to only costing the same as the price of making a normal national rate call to a licence payer's friend or relative on an 01/02 number, just as used to be the case when calling the old BBC Duty Office in London before the monstrous and generally uncaring and unresponsive Capita run BBC Information call centre edifice was set up some 10 or more years ago.

Does the argument from Capita and Cable & Wireless go something like "well we can only afford to give up some of our revenue share income on some of the 084/7 phone calls we get if you can let us hang on to another part of it" or at least something along those lines?. Whatever the thought process behind this crazed hybrid solution it certainly will not wash, it is not logical or morally coherent and the failure to move all your numbers to 03 will be resoundingly condemned by members of the www.saynoto0870.com campaign as a result.

What a shame that the BBC has chosen to ruin what could have been a great PR triumph for it in which it retook the moral high ground over phone calls to the BBC by botching its changes with a half baked approach in which either incompetence, greed or irrationality has caused it to try and continue to retain its unpopular 0844, 0845 and 0871 phone numbers for a substantial proportion of all calls to the Corporation.

Yours in great disappointment.

Regards,

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Keith

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #31 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 6:50am

This is certainly inconsistent with the BBC's reporting of the Which report, where they clearly stated that they were reforming. Specifically I'm thinking of Business Lunch. I can' think of the exact wording used, but as the report referrred to all 08xx numbers, each one in detail on the BBC report, then for the BBC to only change 0870 and claim the BBC is reforming, when they specifically highlighted the problems with 0845 and 0844 and 0871 in their report is very misleading indeed.

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NGMsGhost

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #32 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 6:58am

Keith wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 6:50am:

This is certainly inconsistent with the BBC's reporting of the Which report, where they clearly stated that they were reforming. Specifically I'm thinking of Business Lunch. I can' think of the exact wording used, but as the report referrred to all 08xx numbers, each one in detail on the BBC report, then for the BBC to only change 0870 and claim the BBC is reforming, when they specifically highlighted the problems with 0845 and 0844 and 0871 in their report is very misleading indeed.

Keith,

I was actually telephoned by the person at the BBC coming up with the paper for the BBC Board about these 03 proposal and he also managed to mislead me in to believing that the BBC was planning to change all its numbers to start 03. He even asked for me to give him some particularly bad examples of NGN use by the BBC like Question Time and seemed as though he wanted to tackle them all.

Now we find they are only changing 0870 to 0370 and what is to stop them changing a load of 0870s to 0844 before the conversion date so they are not even covered by the conversion program to 0370? Shocked

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« Last Edit: Jun 12^th, 2008 at 6:58am by NGMsGhost »

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Keith

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #33 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 7:34am

Is there any benefit in raising this with Which or Working Lunch. I can't currently as I don't have time. I have emailed Working Lunch before on issues and they have never been raised. I assume because I'm one of thousands so it has to be more proactive.

I do think that the Working Lunch report is now very misleading. As I said I can't think of the exact words used. It might even have been that the BBC is moving from 0870 numbers, but even if it was the context of the report very much implied a different story in that:

a) specific examples of 0845 and 0844 costs and bad practise were given in the BBC report

b) the interviewer used the words 'people in glass houses....' in referecne to the BBC and the response to that was the BBC was moving to 03xx.

Now even if the reference was to 0870 (and I don't know that it was) having covered the items in a) and then saying you are changing from these bad practices implies all the other numbers as well.

A burglar who now robs one house a night and not two is not a reformed character.

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oldharryrocks

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #34 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 8:38am

I am not trying to defend the Beebs actions but they have said on their site for a a while that only 0870 is being changed.

See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/contactus/questions.shtml

"Will the BBC stop using 0870 numbers?Yes. The BBC has decided to change from 0870 to a new 0370 number range which was created last year by Ofcom, the telecoms regulator. With the changing telecoms market and greater variety of charging frameworks, it has become clear that 0870 charges are not clear and no longer work well for audiences.
0370 calls cost no more than 01and 02 geographic landline numbers and are included in discount packages for both fixed-line and mobile phones. This enables viewers and listeners to call the BBC at the lowest cost to callers. The BBC has taken time to plan for the switchover of up to 80 different numbers to be as smooth as possible and also at the lowest cost to the licence fee payer.

All the BBC’s 0870 numbers will be phased out during the summer of 2008 and replaced with an equivalent 0370 range of numbers. 0870 numbers replaced a previous system where there was no central number to call the BBC on and therefore the cost of calling BBC centres depended on where you live. They were introduced in 1998 so that everyone could call the BBC for the same cost (equivalent roughly to a postage stamp). Local radio 0845 numbers, which have a cheaper ‘local-rate’ charge, and freephone numbers (eg 0800 and 0500) will not be affected by this change.. "

I did post a thread about this recently, with an observation that they still refer to 0845 as local rate,but some kind soul seems to have chosen to remove it. Angry

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« Last Edit: Jun 12^th, 2008 at 8:49am by oldharryrocks »

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SilentCallsVictim Supreme Member Offline aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms Posts: 2,494	Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb Reply #35 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 9:32am Members may wish to suggest a question at the following link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/your_say/default.stm
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NGMsGhost

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #36 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 9:55am

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 9:32am:

Members may wish to suggest a question at the following link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/your_say/default.stm

I really don't think they are going to accept a question about either Question Time's own 0871 number or the BBC proposals regarding 03 numbers (and whether or not Question Time is going to move from 0871 to 0370). So the only question one might get on air would be about say 0844 number use by doctors surgeries.

Given that the production company is one of the BBC's worst offenders by using 0871 I would imagine they would try to squash any question about 084/7 numbers. Also don't forget the questions are for the panellists and not for the BBC or David Dimbleby to answer.

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NGMsGhost Supreme Member Offline The Forum Ghost of NonGeographicalMan<b r /> Posts: 2,720 Surrey, United Kingdom Gender:	Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb Reply #37 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 9:56am oldharryrocks wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 8:38am: Local radio 0845 numbers, which have a cheaper ‘local-rate’ charge, and freephone numbers (eg 0800 and 0500) will not be affected by this change.. And where do they indicate what will happen to their 0844 and 0871 numbers?
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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #38 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 10:29am

NGMsGhost wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 9:55am:

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 9:32am:

Members may wish to suggest a question at the following link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/your_say/default.stm

I really don't think they are going to accept a question about either Question Time's own 0871 number ...

It appears that someone has got a suggested question accepted by the website.

Whilst not directly compelling a response and admission of personal responsibility and profiteering on the part of the MD of the production company, it seeks to raise the specific issue in a manner that is suitable for general discussion. An editor would however probably spot the significance before allowing the question to be used on air.

Fans and followers of the programme may however see the website.

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NGMsGhost

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #39 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 10:49am

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 10:29am:

It appears that someone has got a suggested question accepted by the website.

It appears that person may be someone who is rather well known to you SCV. Wink

I also note that the question that person has asked is a generic one about government and public service bodies setting an example by not using 084/7 numbers rather than being about the BBC's use and abuse of them.

Therefore the only way Question Time's own use of 0871 or the BBC's general use of 084/7 might be probed or discussed on the program would be if we could prime one of the Panel members for the show in question to do so by briefing them on the goings on with the BBC's 084/7 numbers and the high cost of the Question Time 0871 number in particular.

It might get you somewhere but in my view it is all shadow boxing. The people on whom we should really be waging war are Ofcom who allowing the whole scam to continue to flourish and prosper and who fail to even interpret their own General Conditions in a way that prevents misleading price descriptions being given to 084/7 numbers on the phone bills of most of the major telecoms companies (apart from BT).

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Keith

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #40 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 12:40pm

Even if the BBC did only promise to get rid of 0870 that is not what they implied in programmes like Working Lunch and other p[rogrammes that reported on these numbers following the Which Report. There news reports clearly identified the evils of all the 08xx number (not just 0870) usually with specific examples for 0845, 0844 and 0871. They then made it clear they were putting their own house in order shortly.

That is misleading.

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Dave

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #41 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 12:50pm

Keith wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 12:40pm:

Even if the BBC did only promise to get rid of 0870 that is not what they implied in programmes like Working Lunch and other p[rogrammes that reported on these numbers following the Which Report. There news reports clearly identified the evils of all the 08xx number (not just 0870) usually with specific examples for 0845, 0844 and 0871. They then made it clear they were putting their own house in order shortly.

That is misleading.

The 0370 prefix is only available for those who have corresponding 0870 numbers. If the statement was that the BBC is switching to 0370 then that thereby implies that only 0870s will be moving over and must therefore lead us to question what about other 084/0871 numbers?

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NGMsGhost

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #42 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 12:52pm

Keith wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 12:40pm:

Even if the BBC did only promise to get rid of 0870 that is not what they implied in programmes like Working Lunch and other p[rogrammes that reported on these numbers following the Which Report. There news reports clearly identified the evils of all the 08xx number (not just 0870) usually with specific examples for 0845, 0844 and 0871. They then made it clear they were putting their own house in order shortly.

That is misleading.

Also 0845 numbers were surely originally selected for certain lines by the BBC because they were cheaper than 0870 numbers and/or because the call was in a more local area (eg BBC radio station) where it was expected to be cheaper to make a call than via 0870.

So how can the BBC possibly defend a call to their national BBC Information call centre now being cheaper to make on 03 than a call to your local BBC radio station that will still be on 0845. Wink

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NGMsGhost

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #43 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 12:55pm

Dave wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 12:50pm:

The 0370 prefix is only available for those who have corresponding 0870 numbers. If the statement was that the BBC is switching to 0370 then that thereby implies that only 0870s will be moving over and must therefore lead us to question what about other 084/0871 numbers?

I know how my original phone conversation with Michael Stock at the BBC went last Autumn and he clearly led to me believe that all contact numbers with the BBC were going to be switched over to 03. And that was supposed to include Question Time, that he at that time implied he was particularly shocked and appalled to find now used an 0871 number.

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Keith

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #44 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 3:09pm

Regardless of what the BBC originally decided or the technicalities that going to 0370 can only apply to 0870 numbers the BBC clearly ran a number of reports specifically identify the problems with 0845 and 0844 numbers with costs and also clearly stated they were putting their own house in order.

These statement appears to be a lie.

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