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BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls (Read 34,864 times)
Dave
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BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Jun 28th, 2008 at 3:33pm
 
BT has this week increased the cost of calling 0845 and 0870 telephone numbers from its Public Payphones. Calls now cost 20 pence per minute, nearly double what they used to.

Call prices for BT Payphones are on the BT Price List here.

All calls cost a minimum of 40 pence and attract a 20 pence call setup fee. Additional call time can be purchased in 10 pence units.

Call rates are as follows:
Call type Time in secs per 10p Equivalent pence per min
Geographical/03 600 1.00
Most mobiles 9.5 63.16
0844 43 30
*
13.95 20
*
0845/0870 30 20.00
0871 12 6
**
50.00 100
**

*
From 18 August, the cost of calls to 0844 numbers was increased to 20 pence per minute, bringing it into line with 0845 and 0870 calls.
**
The cost of calls to 0871 numbers has increased to £1 per minute.
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« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2008 at 12:28am by Dave »  
 
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sherbert
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #1 - Jun 28th, 2008 at 8:07pm
 
These phone boxes must be running at a huge loss. Does anyone use them these days, when nearly everyone has a mobile? I am surprised BT still bothers to keep them. The AA got rid of all theirs years ago. I can't remember when I last used one.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #2 - Jun 30th, 2008 at 10:58am
 


They are, as they generally have always been, running at a loss.

This is similar situation to that of Post Offices, next to which where they were often located back in the days of the GPO.

Indeed many of us no longer use either. It comes down to the classic argument about how you put a price on a public service. Some of us believe that this is a political decision that should be made in the interest of citizens, others are content for it to be left to be decided in the market by consumers.
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« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2008 at 3:08pm by DaveM »  
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #3 - Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:12am
 
sherbert wrote on Jun 28th, 2008 at 8:07pm:
These phone boxes must be running at a huge loss. Does anyone use them these days, when nearly everyone has a mobile? I am surprised BT still bothers to keep them. The AA got rid of all theirs years ago. I can't remember when I last used one.


But what happens when your car breaks down and you have left your mobile phone at home or the battery has fun flat if there are no public payphone?

Not to mention the extortionate charges to 0800 on a mobile phone but not from a BT Payphone.

Why have these even more extortionate charges to 084/7 now been brought in from Payphones.  It suggests BT think that people are over a barrel about having to call them to keep their gas on etc and that they will get a lot of money by charging these crazy prices, whilst having a headline cheap price to ring your Aunty Vera or 01 or 02.

Time for an embarassing email to Mr Ian Livingston reference his comments to the Scotsman newspaper about BT bringing an end to the whole 084/7 ripoff me thinks.  Also what about NHS Direct that uses an 0845 number and which BT Global terminates the calls on so BT gets all of the extortionate charges from Payphone for calling this number!!!!!!!! Shocked Angry Cry
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Dave
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #4 - Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:18am
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:12am:
Why have these even more extortionate charges to 084/7 now been brought in from Payphones.  It suggests BT think that people are over a barrel about having to call them to keep their gas on etc and that they will get a lot of money by charging these crazy prices, whilst having a headline cheap price to ring your Aunty Vera or 01 or 02.

But we have already mentioned that Payphones are a loss maker. The reduction of geographical calls to 1 pence per minute is just a headline grabber. Most people will make a short call and pay 40 pence for it anyway.
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #5 - Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:39am
 


But there is still a huge difference in the cost of a 30 minute call to your Aunty Vera and a 30 minute call to a customer service department or a government advice line (eg NHS Direct) that is a very real difference.  Why do you wrongly assume that all calls do not exceed the minimum call charge.  That is garbage.  The fact is that calls to customer service centres on 084/7 often take 10 to 30 minutes to complete (especially due to call queuing).

Why would BT charge so much more for 0845 and 0870 if these calls did not in fact constitute a huge part of the revenue it expects to earn from Payphone calls?  Also how is it acceptable for NHS Direct to use a number that costs £6.20 to call for a 30 minute call instead of only 50p for a normal priced phone call from a Payphone for 30 minutes to 01/02.

Your saying it is only headline grabbing is to accept that you think it is acceptable for marketing men to behave in this deceitful way.  Especially when the whole gigantic 084/7 con is reliant on people wrongly thinking 084/7 numbers are normal priced local and national rate phone calls.

If most people didn't pay any more than the minimum payphone call charge then why would BT want to charge so much more for calling 084/7 then Dave? Wink Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2008 at 3:09pm by DaveM »  

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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #6 - Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:48am
 
Also my other point is why is BT's percentage markup vs geographic phone numbers for 084/7 numbers in the weekday daytime from Payphones so much higher than their percentage markup compared to calling 084/7 vs 01/02 calls in the weekday daytime for people on their Weekend Calls Plan or Evening and Weekend Calls Plans (BT Option 1 and 2 as was although altered in terms of free calls).
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Dave
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #7 - Jun 30th, 2008 at 2:48pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:39am:
But there is still a huge difference in the cost of a 30 minute call to your Aunty Vera and a 30 minute call to a customer service department or a government advice line (eg NHS Direct) that is a very real difference. […]

Indeed there is. I've already suggested why that might be. That is to encourage people to use Payphones by way of lowering the apparent charge to "1 pence per minute".

NGMsGhost wrote on Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:39am:
[…] Why do you wrongly assume that all calls do not exceed the minimum call charge.  That is garbage. The fact is that calls to customer service centres on 084/7 often take 10 to 30 minutes to complete (especially due to call queuing).

If you bother to read my post, you will see I was referring soley to geographical calls made from Payphones. It is they who will generally not go over 20 minutes.

So my point has nothing to do with "customer service centres" on 084/7 numbers. I must pull you up on one further point and that is that I never said all calls will not exceed the minimum charge, whether geographical or otherwise.

NGMsGhost wrote on Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:39am:
Why would BT charge so much more for 0845 and 0870 if these calls did not in fact constitute a huge part of the revenue it expects to earn from Payphone calls? […]

Perhaps it is geographical calls which cost "less" rather than 0845 and 0870 which cost "more". This would seem to be the case, bearing in mind we have already said that Payphones are a loss maker anyway.

NGMsGhost wrote on Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:39am:
[…] Also how is it acceptable for NHS Direct to use a number that costs £6.20 to call for a 30 minute call instead of only 50p for a normal priced phone call from a Payphone for 30 minutes to 01/02.

I do not believe it is acceptable. It is, however, a matter for NHS Direct to address.

NGMsGhost wrote on Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:39am:
Your saying it is only headline grabbing is to accept that you think it is acceptable for marketing men to behave in this deceitful way.  Especially when the whole gigantic 084/7 con is reliant on people wrongly thinking 084/7 numbers are normal priced local and national rate phone calls.

Again, you are obviously not reading in full my postings before jumping in and replying. Indeed, I believe that your response is rushed as the first word in this quote should be "you're" and not "your".

In response to this point, I did not say it was acceptable, I merely suggested that that is why it is as it is.

NGMsGhost wrote on Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:39am:
If most people didn't pay any more than the minimum payphone call charge then why would BT want to charge so much more for calling 084/7 then Dave? Wink Roll Eyes

As less and less people use Payphones, the associated charges to those who do will have to go up. An example of this is the 40 pence minimum charge which used to be 10 pence.
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #8 - Jul 3rd, 2008 at 4:46pm
 
As it's been mentioned, BT make a loss on maintaining public payphones but they are obliged to keep them going by Ofcom.

Now I agree, calls to 084x/087x are really expensive from payphones but there has to be a happy medium somewhere!

BT have to try and recoup the loss from payphones from somewhere else so if they didn't try and reclaim it from payphones that could possibly mean a rise in landline line rental or landline call charges.

Indeed, BT may already do this to some degree for all we know.

If BT didn't have to repair/replace telephone boxes and even the payphones themselves due to certain age groups who get their kicks out of destroying payphone boxes then I suppose BT wouldn't make a loss on them or at very least wouldn't make that much of a loss on them.
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #9 - Jul 3rd, 2008 at 5:06pm
 


bbb_uk wrote on Jul 3rd, 2008 at 4:46pm:
As it's been mentioned, BT make a loss on maintaining public payphones but they are obliged to keep them going by Ofcom.

Now I agree, calls to 084x/087x are really expensive from payphones but there has to be a happy medium somewhere!

BT have to try and recoup the loss from payphones from somewhere else so if they didn't try and reclaim it from payphones that could possibly mean a rise in landline line rental or landline call charges.

Indeed, BT may already do this to some degree for all we know.

If BT didn't have to repair/replace telephone boxes and even the payphones themselves due to certain age groups who get their kicks out of destroying payphone boxes then I suppose BT wouldn't make a loss on them or at very least wouldn't make that much of a loss on them.



Why is it that BT are the only telecoms company that is obliged to operate phone boxes? Why aren't others compelled to have some? I bet there is a simple answer but I at the moment don't get it. Smiley
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #10 - Jul 3rd, 2008 at 9:48pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Jul 3rd, 2008 at 4:46pm:
As it's been mentioned, BT make a loss on maintaining public payphones but they are obliged to keep them going by Ofcom.

Now I agree, calls to 084x/087x are really expensive from payphones but there has to be a happy medium somewhere!.


bbb,

You are clearly rambling on a topic you clearly know nothing about.  So if you know nothing about it I would stay quiet if I was you.  Just as you unaccountably also remained quiet in respect of the latest two Ofcom consultations along with not bothering to publicise those consultations to the forum's members.

The simple point is that on a landline BT have a maximum differential of 6p per minute between an 01/02/03 call and an 0870 call and 2p per minute compared to an 0845 call.  Therefore there is no excuse for a price differential between 01/02/03 call costs and 084/7 costs on a payphone that is more than that 6p per minute for 0870 or 2p per minute (as things currently stand) for 0845.  Any further gap does not reflect the real extra costs of calling 084/7 from a Payphone and therefore there is no justification for it.  End of story.

BT have to provide payphones as a quid pro quo for their total monopoly in about 4,000 of the UK's 5,500 phone exchanges where there is no LLU.  They also do it as a quid pro quo for the disgraceful BT line rental charge that makes them the most expensive utillity (compared to gas, water or electricity) by miles.  Please spare me the sob stories about poor old BT not being able to accept any erosion of it monopolistic profits of nearly £1 billlion per annum.
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #11 - Aug 26th, 2008 at 12:43am
 
As of 18 August, calls to 0844 numbers cost 20 pence per minute from BT Payphones.
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #12 - Aug 26th, 2008 at 12:55am
 
Dave wrote on Aug 26th, 2008 at 12:43am:
As of 18 August, calls to 0844 numbers cost 20 pence per minute from BT Payphones.


And what do calls to 0845, 0870 and 0871 now cost?

Why on earth would BT do this given the already major storm over 0844 doctor surgery use. As usual the right hand does not seem to be talking to the left at BT.
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #13 - Aug 26th, 2008 at 1:13am
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 26th, 2008 at 12:55am:
And what do calls to 0845, 0870 and 0871 now cost?

0844/0845/0870 are 20p/min
0871 are 50p/min
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #14 - Aug 26th, 2008 at 8:21am
 
Dave wrote on Aug 26th, 2008 at 1:13am:
0871 are 50p/min


In god's name why when the maximum revenue share is only 7 or 8p per minute.  BT seem happy to live with making 1p per minute on a geographic call subject to payment of the minimum connection charge.

It seems to me that Ian Livingston is not honouring his previous promises.
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