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BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls (Read 34,629 times)
bbb_uk
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #15 - Aug 26th, 2008 at 7:13pm
 
Dave wrote on Aug 26th, 2008 at 2:13am:
NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 26th, 2008 at 1:55am:
And what do calls to 0845, 0870 and 0871 now cost?

0844/0845/0870 are 20p/min
0871 are 50p/min
OfcoN state that BT has SMP and as such some things BT still require the ok from OfcoN (although most things probably don't now)!  So surely OfcoN approval was sought before raising the cost to such an extent.  Regardless of what some people think, i believe it's a bit reasonable for BT to have a slighly higher costs for calls from payphones compared to landline but in this case they are grossly over-pricing the NGNs.

Thing is we all know that OfcoN don't give a damn about what us consumers pay or think.
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #16 - Aug 26th, 2008 at 7:39pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Aug 26th, 2008 at 7:13pm:
0844/0845/0870 are 20p/min 0871 are 50p/min OfcoN state that BT has SMP and as such some things BT still require the ok from OfcoN (although most things probably don't now)!  So surely OfcoN approval was sought before raising the cost to such an extent.  Regardless of what some people think, i believe it's a bit reasonable for BT to have a slighly higher costs for calls from payphones compared to landline but in this case they are grossly over-pricing the NGNs.

Thing is we all know that OfcoN don't give a damn about what us consumers pay or think.


You obviously missed the Ofcom consultation proposing that BT be allowed to set a range of variable payphone box charges to see how it affected demand in different areas.

I know someone who responded to that consulation. Wink

I see that one consultation was actually for a non uniform tariff for geographic charging but the start of the slippery slope and all that kind of thing........

See www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/pcb/

I believe this whole ripoff 084/7 payphone pricing strategy is reliant on the monstrous charges levied for 084/7 and them not being the same as 01/02/03 not being shown in the phone box.  All the marketing there goes on about how cheap it is to make a long national rate phone call (while conveniently forgetting to mention that 084/7 are not charged at these rates) Angry

I see only there were only four responses to that consultation and BT was one of them.  At least one member of this forum made the effort though.  Futile and completely ignored by OfCoN though it of course undoubtedly was. Cry

Also what is the betting that an FOI to Ofcom would reveal the percentage of 084/7 calls made on a payphone to be far higher than from a domestic landline number.  Think tourists and people looking for a room for the night or needing to speak to the gas company etc, etc, etc.
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« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2008 at 7:41pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #17 - Aug 26th, 2008 at 8:02pm
 
I have to say, that despite the title of this thread, for which I am responsible, I think that the geographical calls at 1p/min are a loss leader. I would be interested to know how many geographical calls from phone boxes last as long as 20 minutes or even 5 or 10 minutes.

The point is, and it is a point we make with mobile providers, the differential between geographical and 0845 and 0870, which is relatively speaking a lot lower from a landline.

It is also a fact that BT Payphones are a loss maker anyway, so in order to break even, how much would calls have to cost? 30p, 50p, £1 or £5 per minute?? What is the ball-park figure which cover their cost?
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #18 - Aug 26th, 2008 at 8:13pm
 
Dave wrote on Aug 26th, 2008 at 8:02pm:
It is also a fact that BT Payphones are a loss maker anyway, so in order to break even, how much would calls have to cost? 30p, 50p, £1 or £5 per minute?? What is the ball-park figure which cover their cost?


Pretty irrelevant as none of them can fully cover their costs now unless they are turned in to say email and internet terminals and then only in a busy area.

The point of them though is that sometimes you go out and your mobile phone battery goes flat or you drop it in ditch by accident on walk in the wet welsh hills.  What then if there are no payphones to bail you out in such a circumstance?  Flag down a lift as a hitch-hiker from a driver who turns out to be a maniacal psychopath perhaps. Shocked

Its pretty obvious that most of the calls from these boxes must actually be to 084/7 call centres.  If that wasn't the case then why on earth do you think BT would want to make these 084/7 call charges so high. Wink Roll Eyes

This is BT we're talking about.  Don't feel sorry for them.  They make huge and outrageous profits elsewhere on things like their near monopoly of phone line rental in rural areas either as BT Retail or through a WLR operator who pays BT Wholesale more or less the same price.  They can afford to be made to prop up a few loss making phone boxes as a public service.  Its just that Ofcom's daft rules say it must not do this as it might put other competitor payphone box operators (who no longer exist by and large) out of business.
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« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2008 at 8:18pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #19 - Aug 26th, 2008 at 8:47pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 26th, 2008 at 7:39pm:
You obviously missed the Ofcom consultation proposing that BT be allowed to set a range of variable payphone box charges to see how it affected demand in different areas.
I actually remember that and thought that was just a temporary thing whilst they switched between billing systems or something.  I, of course, could be wrong about that.

I think BT also claimed that very few calls are to NGNs but then like you said why would BT want to charge so much for calls to NGNs then?  I wouldn't be surprised if BT did some creative accounting/stats and provided OfcoN this instead.

But then again, it wouldn't have made a difference as OfcoN are useless and if I had the money and legal experience I'd challenge this
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #20 - Nov 9th, 2008 at 12:29am
 
The cost of calls to 0871 numbers is now £1 per minute from BT Payphones. I have updated the table in the original post.
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #21 - Nov 9th, 2008 at 12:56am
 
Dave wrote on Nov 9th, 2008 at 12:29am:
The cost of calls to 0871 numbers is now £1 per minute from BT Payphones. I have updated the table in the original post.


Truly disgraceful.  This can only be because a lot of calls to 0871 numbers are actually made from Public Payphones.  For instance foreign tourists trying to make or alter travel arrangements who foolishly think using a public payphone to call a UK company will be cheaper than using their foreign mobile at equally exorbitant roaming rates for UK calls.

One would hope that the Office of Fair Trading would launch an investigation in to why a 4900% premium over ordinary geographic phone numbers is required but what hope of action by the OFT when the OFT uses 0845 phone numbers both for its own direct calls from the public and for calls to Consumer Direct............................ Shocked

Surely it is time some of us started writing to Mr Ian Livingston, BT's new CEO, to remind of the comments he made about 084/7 numbers and their discredited and ripoff nature to The Scotsman newspaper. Angry Angry Angry
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #22 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 3:55am
 
"Pretty irrelevant as none of them can fully cover their costs now unless they are turned in to say email and internet terminals and then only in a busy area."

bt did have a contract with Marconi to provide internet capable payphones
but later cancelled the contract with marconi replaced them with normal payphones as they were making a loss and then proceded to remove certain loss leading payphones ( one near us was removed recently)

here is a page from 2005 when the deal was first announced:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2745060/BT-and-Marconi-in-e-payphone-deal.htm...

and when marconi failed to get the contract renewed:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/03/marconi_bt/

and another intresting post:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/migrationtemp/2813941/Locals-see-red-over-pho...

this post was taken in bolton ( which is where i live!!)
bt are adding these new phoneboxes which are supplied by JC Decaux in the uk and Clear Channel NI in northen ireland. ( the new payphone is called Connect 6)

"BT has teamed up with JC Decaux, the French poster company, to roll out an estimated 1,600 of the new kiosks around Britain. If advertisers like them, they could bring in £4m a year in shared revenues."

maybe the extra advertising will help reduce the loss made by rarely used payphones?

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« Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2009 at 3:58am by marty111 »  
 
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #23 - Aug 10th, 2009 at 4:54pm
 
According to The BT Price List, from 1 August BT Payphones continue to charge 0870 calls at almost 20 pence per minute, whereas 01/02/03 calls are about 1 pence per minute.
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #24 - Dec 12th, 2010 at 3:06pm
 
Current call charges from BT Payphones are 20 pence per minute for 0844, 0845 and 0870 numbers.

Yet 0843 numbers are apparently 13.95 pence per minute. Perhaps this is a typo or an old rate. Huh
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« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2010 at 3:07pm by Dave »  
 
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Re: BT Payphones cashes in on 0845 and 0870 calls
Reply #25 - Dec 12th, 2010 at 3:32pm
 
Dave wrote on Dec 12th, 2010 at 3:06pm:
Current call charges from BT Payphones are 20 pence per minute for 0844, 0845 and 0870 numbers.

Yet 0843 numbers are apparently 13.95 pence per minute. Perhaps this is a typo or an old rate. Huh

The fact that the number "43" is entered in the box for the number of seconds per 10p alongside "0843" could suggest that this is a typo.

May I suggest a bit of research, with a high probability that the total cost of the call will be refunded if the Price List is found to be wrong. Perhaps TFL would like to send someone out to do the work!
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