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Abbey - 0551 numbers (Read 91,982 times)
Dave
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #30 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 2:17pm
 
Telegram_Sam wrote on Sep 23rd, 2009 at 2:09pm:
Today, after enquiring with Virgin the cost of calling 005511430*** they had no info on these numbers, but offered to contact Abbey directly, with Abbey claiming it can charge what it likes for it's 005511430*** numbers  Angry Abbey describing their number as "national"  Roll Eyes ... that tells me it's equivalent to at least 0870 rate (9.79p per min from 01/10/09, from a Virgin landline) - but, I will not be calling Abbey on that number to find out!  ... in this instance I'll decline to partake of the "Abbey habit" Tongue

The company you're calling does not set the call rate, your call provider does!


Virgin Media publish call charges for all types of calls at www.virginmedia.com/callcosts

Firstly, refer to the "UK non-geographic calls" document, page 2 identifies the 055114 as being chargeband PG21.

Then refer to "Residential tariffs" to find out the cost of calling PG21 numbers. Page 14 shows they have a connection fee of 8.8 pence, and cost 4.79 pence per minute during the daytime and 1.96 pence per minute during the evening.
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #31 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 2:42pm
 
***    the cost of calling 005511430*** they had no info on these numbers ***

Dialling 00 55 11 430x xxxx  gets you to São Paulo, Brazil.


As an aside, all 055 numbers are currently unformatted in the sayNOto0870 database.
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #32 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 8:33pm
 
Location Independent (g21) 055/056
1.96 / 4.79 ppm evening/daytime rate on Virgin talk plans, inc. VAT.

Source: here.

These are VoIP precursors to the new 03 range, that never really took off due to the hoops you had to jump through to actually get one!  Some tariffs from some suppliers bill them as 01/02/03 numbers, others don't.  But as a general rule, nobody has heard of them and you'll get any old random answer if you try and ask customer services!


Edit: oops missed this had been answered on the next page!  Leaving it here for the alternate source link.
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« Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2009 at 8:34pm by irrelevant »  
 
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michael.mclaughlin
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0551 Numbers
Reply #33 - Sep 23rd, 2010 at 3:07pm
 
Just been given my first 05511430239 number to call Santander branch.   This is a first for me so I put it into 'Sayno' for a geographical number.   Nothing found so I put in Santander and got a lot.  I was surprised to find both on the main and unverified database 0551 numbers quoted in the 01/02/03 column.   Is this not misleading or have I misunderstood these, new to me, 0551 numbers?    
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Re: 0551 Numbers
Reply #34 - Sep 23rd, 2010 at 3:26pm
 
michael.mclaughlin wrote on Sep 23rd, 2010 at 3:07pm:
Just been given my first 05511430239 number to call Santander branch.   This is a first for me so I put it into 'Sayno' for a geographical number.   Nothing found so I put in Santander and got a lot.  I was surprised to find both on the main and unverified database 0551 numbers quoted in the 01/02/03 column.   Is this not misleading or have I misunderstood these, new to me, 0551 numbers?    

Welcome to SAYNOTO0870.COM.

I've joined your posting to a thread already running on this.

0551 numbers are non-geographic "corporate" numbers and Santander uses them in its branches that used to be Abbey. They are not revenue sharing numbers, hence the fact that they are listed in the geographic number column in the database.

BT charges these numbers the same as a geographic, 03 or 0870 call; i.e. 0551 numbers are inclusive where applicable. I believe, unfortunately, that many other providers levy a premium to call them, although you will have to check to see if that is the case with yours.

Please can you tell me the location of the branch so I can add it to the listings?  Smiley
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #35 - Sep 23rd, 2010 at 8:58pm
 
Thanks Dave for your reply.   As a Newbi I have missed a lot on this subject.
That number I quoted belonged to Santander Belfast Branch, I think Royal Avenue.
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #36 - Sep 23rd, 2010 at 9:21pm
 
Dave if the 0551 numbers are posted in the 01/02/03 column do you not think that this could mislead people into dialling these numbers and assuming that they are charged same as 01/02/03 and therefor included in packages?   I appreciate your point about non revenue sharing but this is irrelevant to the user if they are charged by their telco without them being aware.
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #37 - Sep 25th, 2010 at 4:56pm
 
michael.mclaughlin wrote on Sep 23rd, 2010 at 9:21pm:
Dave if the 0551 numbers are posted in the 01/02/03 column do you not think that this could mislead people into dialling these numbers and assuming that they are charged same as 01/02/03 and therefor included in packages?   I appreciate your point about non revenue sharing but this is irrelevant to the user if they are charged by their telco without them being aware.    

For the most effective use of the alternative numbers listings it requires a user to know which numbers are the cheaper on their particular tariff.

It would be impractical for the SAYNOTO0870.COM search page to request the visitor's tariff so as to advise which is cheaper. Any such solution would need to know, and be kept up to date, with call charges on many different tariffs.

There are four fields (columns) for phone numbers: 0870/1, 0844/5, 01/02/03 and freephone. We can't have too many because it would not fit.

There are situations where it is not simply the case that the numbers to the right are cheaper to call than those on the left such as freephone numbers from mobiles and 0870 numbers which are inclusive with BT at times when 01/02/03 numbers are inclusive.
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #38 - Sep 27th, 2010 at 10:50am
 
It is in my view totally and utterly wrong for this site to be listing 0551 numbers in the 01/02/03 column when 0551 numbers are not ever charged at 01/02/03 rates.

As 0551 numbers are usually more expensive to call than 0845 numbers and are also not part of call packages (unlike 0845 on BT, TalkTalk and many other landlines) then why are they being listed as alternatives to 0845 numbers at all, let alone under the 01/02/03 column.  If they are going to be listed at all for these branches as alternatives then it should surely only be done under "Other Information" with a suitable caveat.
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #39 - Sep 27th, 2010 at 11:05am
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 27th, 2010 at 10:50am:
It is in my view totally and utterly wrong for this site to be listing 0551 numbers in the 01/02/03 column when 0551 numbers are not ever charged at 01/02/03 rates.

This statement is incorrect. BT charges 055114 numbers the same as 01/02/03 numbers.


NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 27th, 2010 at 10:50am:
As 0551 numbers are usually more expensive to call than 0845 numbers and are also not part of call packages (unlike 0845 on BT, TalkTalk and many other landlines) then why are they being listed as alternatives to 0845 numbers at all, let alone under the 01/02/03 column.  If they are going to be listed at all for these branches as alternatives then it should surely only be done under "Other Information" with a suitable caveat.

This is also incorrect. As I said, BT charges 055114 the same as 01/02/03 numbers. This means that they are part of inclusive packages.
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #40 - Sep 27th, 2010 at 11:51am
 
Dave wrote on Sep 27th, 2010 at 11:05am:
This statement is incorrect. BT charges 055114 numbers the same as 01/02/03 numbers.


So what of landline customers who are not with BT and who are with TalkTalk, Sky, Virgin or numerous other landline companies and what of mobile phone customers.  And what of the numerous mobile phone customers with inclusive call plans that do not include these numbers.

If in the majority of cases apart from BT customers using 055114 numbers are subject to an extra charge and BT is the exception to the rule then surely users of the site should be warned about this.  Especially when 055114 will be an unfamiliar code and the only other use of 05 is for 0500 Freephone numbers.

Quote:
This is also incorrect. As I said, BT charges 055114 the same as 01/02/03 numbers. This means that they are part of inclusive packages.


And what about non BT landline customers not to mention users of BT Payphones who also will be charged a premium rate for calling 05514 numbers.  For you to simply list the number in the 01/02/03 column when it is physically not an 01/02/03 number and not charged on an 01/02/03 basis on most landline call plans apart from BT's is inappropriate.  Ditto when it is not part of inclusive bundled minutes on any mobile phone calling plans.

If you are going to list the number do not list it misleadingly as being an 01/02/03 number when it is not and I certainly would not like to see the column heading changed to include 05514 when it is not charged the same way as other 01/02/03 numbers by most call providers other than in BT's domestic landline call packages.
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #41 - Sep 27th, 2010 at 3:33pm
 
If the 0551 numbers were included in the 0845 column because they are a corporate version of non-geographical numbers then everyone would be alerted to possible additional charges.   If you are a BT customer there is less chance of being hurt.   It appears to me that BT customers don't need 0845/0870 to be listed in a seperate column.
I would think that the average person using the site look at the columns on the left and then the right to find the cheaper alternative.   This would be my general approach but because I am very aware of what is happening in this number game I would investigate.      
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #42 - Sep 27th, 2010 at 5:25pm
 
I do hope that we are not getting into the tempting, but dreaded "Calls cost xx from a BT Landline, other providers may vary" syndrome.

If all other providers follow the BT pattern then fair enough. I have not done the work properly, but at a quick look Virgin Media appears not to treat "PG21" as inclusive, although it charges less than for non-inclusive calls to geo numbers. If my quick look was correct then surely these cannot belong in the 01/02/03 column, even though it may be untrue to say that they are never charged on the same basis. One could say that 0845 and 0870 are sometimes charged at the same rate as 01/02/03, and in the case of some mobile situations the same is true for 0800.

With the present columns, if there is some value in offering 0551s as alternatives I would suggest that they probably belong in the "Other Information" column.
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #43 - Sep 27th, 2010 at 9:49pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Sep 27th, 2010 at 5:25pm:
With the present columns, if there is some value in offering 0551s as alternatives I would suggest that they probably belong in the "Other Information" column.


For once SCV I find myself fully in agreement with you.

Whilst 0845 and 0870 numbers are now included in BT landline call packages (even they are still charged at a 900% per minute premium from BT Public Payphones compared to 01/02/03 numbers) I do not notice these numbers as having now started to appear in the 01/02/03 numbers column on this site.

There is a very good reason for this which is because although BT charges 0845 and 0870 numbers as per geographic numbers at the present time it does so purely for marketing reasons whereas in the case of 03 numbers everyone (landline and mobile phone companies) must charge them at the same rate as their rate to 01 and 02 numbers by regulatory dictat.  Since there is no regulatory dictat that these Santander 0551 numbers will be charged at the same rate as 01/02/03 numbers and they are frequently not charged on this basis (with the many telecoms companies other than BT and I am sure also with BT from Public Payphones) then it is clearly wholly inappropriate to list them as being 01/02/03 numbers.
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Re: Abbey - 0551 numbers
Reply #44 - Sep 29th, 2010 at 9:26am
 
I think it a great pity that Abbey (now calling themselves Santander as if they wish to extinguish all mention of any Britishness about their name or organisation and to remove any last vestiges of our British heritage and culture in favour of an amorphous and vanilla flavour across Euroland) seems to be falling over itself in its desperation to rip off and scam its customers by eliminating the use of all normal geographic numbers and getting all confused over their use of 0845 and 0551 numbers.  It is a shameful and demeaning sight to behold to see a once solid and dependable company, formerly a mutual society for the mutual benefit of its members, debasing its relationship with its clients and the British public at large.

I have been a user of Abbey National financial services ever since they first expanded their mission from being purely a savings and mortgage organisation into the venture of operating current accounts and other services.   I have always thought the design, function and style of their on-line systems to be first class, something which sadly could not be said about the former management which so disastrously lost its way and weakened the company that they allowed themselves to be taken over and the Abbey National identity lost forever.   The one good thing that can be said about Santander is that, so far, they have not interfered with, absorbed or messed about with the on-line systems which still work excellently as far as I am concerned.   If they were ever to do such a thing then that would probably be the final straw which would compel me to look elsewhere for such services.

Having said that, I notice that we have listed on our database a large number of 0800 numbers which can be used to contact "Abbey" although they are mostly unverified.   Whilst I prefer to conduct almost all my business through the Abbey on-line systems I can say that I find 0800 032 8929 to be an ideal alternative for contacting Abbey and can be moved to "verified" (moderator please note).   Although promoted mainly as a sales and advisory line, one is greeted by a mercifully short welcome and menu and I have been put through to my local Branch after using this number and indeed to other services.

So at the moment there is no need to use either of the controversial and disliked 0845 or 0551 numbers. I hope that this is helpful.  
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« Last Edit: Sep 29th, 2010 at 9:59am by loddon »  
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