SAYNOTO0870.COM - 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppliers

oldharryrocks Full Member Offline Posts: 134	1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppliers Aug 4^th, 2008 at 3:39am Some Call Providers have started to make changes to the way that they provide calls to their customers, these changes will affect the 1280 service and result in higher bills for certain call features. http://www.calls.bt.com/1280/
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irrelevant

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Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl
Reply #1 - Aug 4^th, 2008 at 9:33pm

From the FAQ on that page
Quote:

These changes may affect customers that currently have a line billed by BT, but who make their calls through a different provider. Customers who do this can dial 1280 to make calls that are billed by BT. On the new service, a call pre-fixed with 1280 will connect in the normal way, but it will NOT be chargeable to a BT bill. It will actually be charged by your own Call Provider (and this could be at a higher rate). It will also NOT count towards the necessary calls quota to receive either BT Caller Display1 or BT Answer 15712 at no extra cost.

and
Quote:

How will I know if my Call Provider is making these changes?

A number of Call Providers are making these changes. Some of these, such as Sky, have made this information public. However, other Call Providers have chosen not to do so, and the information remains commercially confidential.

So, if you usualy use 1280 to force a call via BT, not only could you suddenly be charged more for the call, but you won't even know about it until your bills come in because providers aren't telling you! Nasty.

I imagine this just affects people who use CPS (carrier pre-selection) i.e. you don't have to dial a prefix to use the alternate carrier. If you dial a prefix or use an add-on box to do it, I can't see how it would affect you, as you don't need to use 1280 to force a call to BT.

I wonder if it means they are barring access to ALL other carriers ?

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derrick Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,124	Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl Reply #2 - Aug 5^th, 2008 at 7:28am How can they do this if you pay line rental to BT? I thought that was the reason for continuing to pay line rental to BT, as BT are obliged to allow calls via other suppliers! Plus,IF they can do this, why are they allowed to do it covertly? Or are BT scaremongering?
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Heinz

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Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl
Reply #3 - Aug 5^th, 2008 at 2:39pm

I think this only affects those who have handed over their line rental to a third party (e.g. Talk Talk or Sky) via the WLR or LLU arrangements and BT's 'announcement' is just a poorly-worded attempt to make sure those switching their line rental realise the implications for the 1280 prefix. i.e. the second sentence in that FAQ is still accurate.
Quote:

These changes may affect customers that currently have a line billed by BT, but who make their calls through a different provider. Customers who do this can dial 1280 to make calls that are billed by BT.

IMHO, those who still pay line rental to BT and use a third party calls provider on a CPS (Carrier PreSelect) basis, are unaffected.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=13028005#post13028005

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« Last Edit: Aug 5^th, 2008 at 2:42pm by Heinz »

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015

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nicholas43

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Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl
Reply #4 - Sep 16^th, 2008 at 2:25pm

BT Wholesale is now flogging "Wholesale calls line independent". This is a scam. Sky (or whoever) steals control of all calls, but the hapless customer goes on paying BT Retail for a "call plan" including calls he can't make. BT Retail has meanwhile had the nerve to purport to amend their t&c for telephony to say that 1280 may not work.

We are telling BT Retail that we do not accept this unilateral and unfair attempt to change our contract with them. They are contracted to route each call as we specify by a prefix, or, if we specify no prefix, to our CPS provider. I am also complaining to Ofcom, whose first response mistakenly claimed that Sky were switching their customers to WLR (which would require the customers' informed consent, of course).

If the BT Group is allowed to get away with this, the effect is that BT Wholesale is sure of the wholesale profit on all calls, and Sky etc add whatever retail margin they like, and the likes of Finarea are squeezed out of business.

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bbb_uk

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Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl
Reply #5 - Sep 17^th, 2008 at 10:32pm

We all need to complain to Ofcom over this otherwise all other CPS providers will just do the same. We need to complain to Ofcom as it restricts our choice of providers for which it was Oftel/Ofcom's intention that we could choose who we wanted to carry what type of call we decided. It's basically stifing competition.

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Dave

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Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl
Reply #6 - Sep 17^th, 2008 at 10:35pm

bbb_uk wrote on Sep 17^th, 2008 at 10:32pm:

We all need to complain to Ofcom over this otherwise all other CPS providers will just do the same. We need to complain to Ofcom as it restricts our choice of providers for which it was Oftel/Ofcom's intention that we could choose who we wanted to carry what type of call we decided. It's basically stifing competition.

Is it the CPS provider which is blocking the 1280 prefix (and other prefixes) or is it BT?

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bbb_uk

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Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl
Reply #7 - Sep 17^th, 2008 at 10:52pm

Dave wrote on Sep 17^th, 2008 at 10:35pm:

Is it the CPS provider which is blocking the 1280 prefix (and other prefixes) or is it BT?

Going by what I've read on MSE here from Heinz and few others, it appears that BT have introduced a way that CPS providers can effectively block access to 1280 or other Indirect Access providers even if they still continue to pay BT for linerental.

Going by the thread on SkyUser forums, it appears that Sky have already started switching customers allegedly without their knowledge!

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Dave

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Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl
Reply #8 - Sep 17^th, 2008 at 11:01pm

bbb_uk wrote on Sep 17^th, 2008 at 10:52pm:

Dave wrote on Sep 17^th, 2008 at 10:35pm:

Is it the CPS provider which is blocking the 1280 prefix (and other prefixes) or is it BT?

Going by what I've read on MSE here from Heinz and few others, it appears that BT have introduced a way that CPS providers can effectively block access to 1280 or other Indirect Access providers even if they still continue to pay BT for linerental.

Going by the thread on SkyUser forums, it appears that Sky have already started switching customers allegedly without their knowledge!

This shows the lengths that some CPS providers will go to in order to close down any alternative call providers. BT is simply providing services to its customers (Sky Talk etc), so I don't see that it is doing anything wrong. It is surely the CPS provider who is doing wrong by subscribing to such a service.

If you get a speeding fine, it is hardly the fault of the manufacturer of the vehicle you were driving at the time for providing that vehicle to you, now is it?

This is just typical Sky behaviour. It's strange how the BT bashers come out of the woodwork, as too do those who consider the BBC licence fee unfair, but yet happily accept the monopoly that is Sky.

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« Last Edit: Sep 17^th, 2008 at 11:04pm by Dave »

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bbb_uk

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Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl
Reply #9 - Sep 18^th, 2008 at 7:15am

Dave wrote on Sep 17^th, 2008 at 11:01pm:

This shows the lengths that some CPS providers will go to in order to close down any alternative call providers. BT is simply providing services to its customers (Sky Talk etc), so I don't see that it is doing anything wrong. It is surely the CPS provider who is doing wrong by subscribing to such a service.

I agree it's not BTs fault however one wonders what their motives were for introducing this service/facility? I assume that this maybe costs CPS providers slightly more but in return they have full control over what their customers (us general public) use.

Remember that this wont stop with just Sky as other providers like TalkTalk, etc will just follow by example because it is in their interest to stop their own customers from accessing Indirect Access numbers (18185, BT 1280, etc) even if they have linerental with BT.

Oftel and its useless successor Ofcom, both say that with CPS the ability to override calls and route them to the a cheaper alternative is our right providing we continue to pay linerental to BT.

If this continues, which I suspect it might unless we all complain to useless OfcoN, then this right will no longer exist and we will be tied to using only the (CPS) supplier where we get our calls from regardless if we pay our linerental to BT.

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« Last Edit: Sep 18^th, 2008 at 7:20am by bbb_uk »

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irrelevant

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Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl
Reply #10 - Sep 18^th, 2008 at 11:31am

I guess the answer is not to use CPS, and always dial a supplier prefix, or get a dialer box to do it for you. Although I subscribe to a couple of indirect suppliers, as well as the VoIP we normally use, I've never been tempted to hand over that much control of my calling paterns to a third party. Some, of course, will only operate on the basis of CPS, to try and lock you in.

I guess CPS was introduced at the request of the other carriers to save the cost of distributing dialer boxes, and to try and catch more of the calls being made. This latest initiative is just a logical extension of that.

(as an aside, I've been an indirect customer since the days of Mercury 2300, when you had to dial 131 and a ten digit account number, which I knew {and still know} off by heart as I could never afford the vast amount of money for a dialer in those days! It turned out to be very handy, as you could use it from any phone, even payphones, and be charged home phone rates!)

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bbb_uk

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Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl
Reply #11 - Sep 18^th, 2008 at 3:24pm

irrelevant wrote on Sep 18^th, 2008 at 11:31am:

I guess the answer is not to use CPS, and always dial a supplier prefix, or get a dialer box to do it for you.

Actually I've just moved back to BT for their unlimited calls because they were second cheapest (Sky the cheapest but getting rid of Sky) so it was a choice between BT or Primus. However, I heard Primus was moving their call centre outside the UK which would no doubt mean if I had a problem it can be so much harder/longer to sort it out due to language barrier, etc.

Primus do 90min per call before getting charged whereas it's only an hour on BT.

However, the point is that the whole idea of CPS was to increase competition and allow us more control over who carries some or all of our calls.

This new thing that BT are doing is most likely going to be snapped up by other big CPS providers just so they can block people from using Indirect Accesss providers thereby forcing them to pay their own rates for calls which for those Sky customers mean paying upto 10p/min for 0870 numbers and 6p/min for 0845 numbers.

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gudman Junior Member Offline Posts: 89	Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl Reply #12 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 9:29pm I was using 1280 for making 0844 calls to make international calls, last month all my calls were charged by sky. I thought I made calls without 1280 prefix. Sky didn't tell me about the change. This is really annoying. Who is reponsible for all these changes? Is it sky or BT?
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jrawle

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Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl
Reply #13 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 9:38pm

But how much do Sky charge for 0844 numbers? As far as I can see, their prices are currently the same as the standard BT prices. So for international calls, you are currently OK. The problem will be in the future if they decide to block cheap dial-through operators!

The Sky prices can be found here:

This file has the charge band codes:
http://www.sky.com/Assets/PDF/StaticFiles/1212410.pdf

And this file has the costs for each charge band:
http://www.sky.com/Assets/PDF/StaticFiles/1210910.pdf

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gudman Junior Member Offline Posts: 89	Re: 1280 BT Access to be barred by some call suppl Reply #14 - Sep 25^th, 2008 at 8:15am I was using 1280 to make minimum calls to qualify free caller display from BT, now i have to pay BT for my caller display.
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