I have just booked two very expensive transactions where the credit card fee would have been £44 per transaction but the debit card transaction was nil using my Visa Debit card based on the above knowledge.  And yes it is for travel so protecting against the possibility of loss due to insolvency is now rather important.

I recently also acquired a Visa Electron card from the Co-op to use to buy Ryanair or Easyjet flights as they charge nothing for Visa Electron but do charge for Visa Debit cards.  I would be interested to know if Visa Electron also benefits from this payment protection.  I suspect that it may not do and may be considered as equivalent to elecronic cash.  That is probably why Ryanair prefer it as it avoids the possibility of chargeback disputes.  But if so then why don't they also give preferred no card fee status to Maestro payments?

sherbert wrote on Sep 13^th, 2008 at 2:31pm:


Typical merchant credit card charges to large retailers are 2% of the transaction value unless the transaction value is very small.  There is usually a minimum fee they are charged for a transaction (eg 20p) regardless of size and that is why some retailers do not like card payments for very low value transactions, especially under £5.

As to debit cards the banks do charge the merchant a fee but for taking them but it is usually a fixed amount like 20p per transaction and/or a very low percentage (eg 0.1%) on larger value transactions.  The reason for the difference is the money is coming straight out of the customer's bank account (or at least within 3 working days maximum and often same day now) and there is no payment delay of up to 56 days.  Also there is less credit risk as bank accounts are credit scored for overdraft a lot more accurately than many of the more reckless credit card issuers tend to do.

The reason why Ryanair now charge £8 return for debit cards per passenger is simple.  Namely they are trying to get round the EU rules that say all airport fees and taxes must be quoted up front.  However as they can argue that they charge no fee for Visa Electron they can say they can't quote the fees including card charges up front.  I believe that eventually the EU or OFT will mandate that they have to ask how you are going to pay for the flight before you look it up and get a price quote so the price quote then includes the card charges.  There will then be no point in levying these hidden fare charges as debit card charges that do not reflect the transaction cost.  More reputable companies like Thomson (part of the German TUI) just add 2% to the transaction value if you use a credit card and do not have a minimum fee.  This is fair enough as they actually pay 2% extra for credit card use.

As to Visa Electron and Ryanair not making a card charge while they do for Visa Debit this is principally because almost no one had a Visa Electron card and the card type is physically separate from Visa Debit so can be identified by them on their system.  As a result almost no one could then avoid their £8 card charge.  Of course a lot of people (myself included) are now acquiring Visa Electron cards (Co-Op Cashminder which you can apply for on the phone in 10 minutes with no ID needed seems the best bet as you can pay cash or a cheque in to it at any Post Office or Sub Post Office or using your online bank account via BACS) so in due course Ryanair are likely to bring in a charge for Visa Electron.  When the EU and trading standards finally rules that levying card charges that do not reflect actual costs is a scam then no doubt Ryanair will be forced to increase their headline fares and/or futher increase the baggage charge or check in charge (although again they may have a problem with that if they try to charge more than physical check in or handling baggage actually costs them plus a reasonable profit margin).

In any event I would certainly recommend anyone to get hold of a Visa Electron card in case they think it is likely they may fly with Ryanair or Easyjet at some point in the future or in case other tour operators or low cost airlines go down the only Visa Electron is fee free route.

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 13^th, 2008 at 3:25pm:
I believe that is probably true.  However, in adverts where ASA has jurisdiction, I believe ASA would rule that such a fee had to be included simply because majority would be subject to the charge.

bbb_uk wrote on Sep 14^th, 2008 at 11:39am:


Of course they can, although there may be a charge for incoming calls, as with 03 but maybe cheaper, I think it may depend on call volume as to how much the charge would be.

See these companies forexamples,(BT can also do it but choose not to advertise the fact, as it will probably not be as lucrative as 084/087),: -



TTNC  http://www.ttnc.co.uk/about/about-us.do                  

http://www.ttnc.co.uk/numbers/local-area-codes.do

NumberStore  http://www.numberstore.com/about-us.asp

Just to put the record straight, I believe that the 0870 number in question belongs to ATOL, although it is also being publicised by the CAA.

We can make whatever conjecture we wish in the absence of the relevant facts. The reason for adopting a 0870 number is not the point. The fact is that those who are suffering as a result of this situation are having to make a financial contribution towards the costs of resolving their difficulties.

Most people would see that alone as being a scandal, regardless of the motives and alternative options available to those responsible for it. Let them explain whether they are knaves or fools.

Just got around to ringing Atol on their published (Contact Us page of their website) 020 7453 6700 claims line instead of the 0870 that they are trying to rip us off with.

Answered in under a minute following the prompts for XL group of companies option.

I have added this to the database but as it's only temporary I shall remove it in a few weeks time.

Of course there is still the number they quote for those ringing abroad: 02891 85 6547.