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03 numbers are bad you broke the website (Read 36,345 times)
oldharryrocks
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #15 - Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:32pm
 
mr_feedback wrote on Nov 5th, 2008 at 5:27pm:
this is still EIGHT TIMES more expensive per minute than the 0.5p a minute 18185 charges for calls to 0845 numbers.


If you use the 18185 Cable/Mobile 0808 FREEphone access number . They state on website 0845 calls cost 3p a minute weekdays and 1p at weekends.

http://www.18185.co.uk/mobilerates.php

Yet they only charge 0.5p a minute.


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« Last Edit: Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:36pm by oldharryrocks »  
 
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Dave
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #16 - Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:50pm
 
I would go by the printed information or that on the website rather than customer services. Clearly the person you spoke to wasn't properly briefed and/or didn't check.

I've just called the BBC Children in Need 0345 733 2233 number from my BT landline using 18185's prefix, 18185 and it is network busy (that's an engaged tone with a long tone and short tone) and the 020 dial-through number and a female voice says that the number is busy. It has been possible to call 03 numbers via 18185.

I don't know how you pay 0.5p/min to 0845 during the daytime. I think any provider offering such a rate is likely to be making a loss.


As mentioned above, only BT must provide access to all numbers. A year ago there were mainstream providers which didn't allow access to 03 numbers. It was a case of the chicken and the egg. Should we have encouraged organisations to use 03 numbers or telephone companies to carry these numbers? Now the situation is somewhat different. The vast majority of providers allow 03 numbers to be dialled.

Unfortunately, it has been reported that 18185 and other Finarea operated services don't have a very good customer services. There is no telephone number and you aren't forced to get a response by email.

The only thing I can suggest is that you send them an email and ask what is going on with 03 numbers.
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mr_feedback
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #17 - Nov 5th, 2008 at 10:57pm
 
jrawle "call inclusive" packages are not free, you pay a higher cost for the service than if there were no inclusive calls so if you don't do enough calling to require a call inclusive deal, and until these 03 numbers started coming up you'd have had to spend well over 15 hours on the phone per month to beat £5 line rental and 0.5p per minute with free weekend calls before BT's £10.50 a month was a good deal (and even then you can get 5p per call flat with 0844 calls on BT, that doesn't apply to 03xx so it's still a bad deal). I don't, but I do spend 5 or 6 hours on the month to companies who have now changed to these 03xx numbers which are MORE EXPENSIVE THAN IT IS FOR ME TO CALL GEOGRAPHICAL NUMBERS. And it really was that simple, that was my whole complaint - that they are not the same as geographical numbers.

Now I know you don't agree as 03xx are not more expensive for YOU to call than geographical numbers. And that's OK. Obviously the party is over for me and I will have to find another £40 a year and change telephone companies. It's not the end of the world. If you had listed GEOGRAPHICAL NUMBERS as alternatives to 03xx numbers I would not have this problem but really what I took offense at was because I didn't understand what 03xx numbers were intended to be when I made the first post having just been told they cost 8p a minute; and I'm still (somewhat) put out the numbers are supposed to be an end to the rip off of 08xx numbers and THEY COST A NUMBER OF PEOPLE INCLUDING ME MORE RIGHT NOW. So it's like a big joke, a return of the non-geographic numbers.

But I get that 03xx numbers are what you wanted all along and that's fine. You worked for the change and I didn't so I'll have to find a new phone provider and pay a bit more money. That's life, I withdraw my complaint Wink
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« Last Edit: Nov 5th, 2008 at 11:05pm by mr_feedback »  
 
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NGMsGhost
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #18 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 12:17am
 
oldharryrocks wrote on Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:20pm:
I think 18185 must  have a problem with 03 numbers, because i recently dialled an 03 number from a BT Line  using the 18185 access code and it claimed network busy, i dialled it using the 0808 access code it said it was busy,i then tried it via the 0208 access code it said it was busy. Yet when i rang it direct via BT and O2 it answered straight away.


With yourcalls.net I found I consistently could not get through to BBC Information using their 03 number by dialling the normal way and I had to add the 1280 over-ride prefix to force the call to route with BT to get through.  Even then I was regularly getting engaged dialling the BBC Information 03 number but not if I used the old 0870 number when I was connected straight away.

I suppose I should take this up with Michael Stock at the BBC but there are only so many hours in the day.

Basically Ofcom being the pathetically useless organisation they are have failed to properly ensure all telecoms providers do class 03 as normal numbers even though their own General Conditions say they should.  I expect they are far too busy arranging their next pension contribution increase or their next big dinner for the telecoms industry to have time to attend to such trivial and unimportant matters. Wink Roll Eyes Angry Cry
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jrawle
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #19 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 12:37am
 
I'm well aware that there's no such thing as "free" calls. What I said was that you now have choice as a consumer. If you do subscribe to an inclusive package, calls to the new 03 numbers will also be included. This is in contrast to 087 numbers - in the past, inclusive packages were forced down our throats by telecom companies, who always neglected to mention that the numbers for most organisations were excluded.

The fact is, no-one should be paying more for 03 numbers than for 01/02. If you are, there's something wrong. Only a small minority of people who use some weird combination of services will be in that position. Even so, we'd like to help you.

Please can you tell us what dial-though number you use to make calls, so we can look into it.

Could you also fill in the following table to explain call costs for the two services you use. (Don't forget to list the call set-up costs too):
Virgin Dial-through
01/02 ?p/min, ?p set-up ?p/min, ?p set-up
03 ?p/min, ?p set-up ?p/min, ?p set-up
0845 ?p/min, ?p set-up ?p/min, ?p set-up

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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #20 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 12:53am
 
I hope I do not risk having my "senior member" status revoked by revealing that I have little interest in subscribing to services from uncontactable offshore discount telephone service providers that require you to dial override prefixes for some calls as well as consulting the clock, a set of tariff tables and perhaps a website before making a telephone call.

I believe that this places me in the same position as most of those whose interests we are aiming to serve by campaigning against improper use of revenue sharing numbers. (I recognise that others have wider campaigning objectives.)

It is generally true that any provider of heavily discounted services cannot offer a full range of options. This is because they are generally exploiting high margin items that others use to subsidise their customer service overheads and less profitable items in their catalogue of services.

If one is prepared to suffer the necessary inconvenience, limitations of service and lack of "frills" such as a customer service line in order to save money, then that is fair enough. This however has little to do with public service providers funding their service through payments by service users wihout declaring the fact.

If a telephone service provider is permitted to deny access to the BBC Children in Need appeal and other useful numbers, and they chose to take this option, then they should have a lot of unhappy customers, and deservedly so. If it has been established that this is what we are discussing here, then perhaps this thread should be moved to the "rogue call providers" section of the forum.

By the way, I can endorse all the criticism of the quality of customer service from Virginmedia. I had two such examples today. Both agents were charming and courteous, but neither had any idea about the services they were dealing with. At least we are getting Sky News back, and Sky Arts added.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #21 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 12:59am
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 12:53am:
By the way, I can endorse all the criticism of the quality of customer service from Virginmedia. I had two such examples today. Both agents were charming and courteous, but neither had any idea about the services they were dealing with.


Surely this is hardly unique to Virgin but sadly typical of the customer service agents of 95% of the UK's large companies today.

If you were a customer of Vodafone you would find that both charm and courtesy are most certainly not default features of their Scottish call centres and instead abrupt terseness, arrogance and indifference to the customer are the norm.
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #22 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 10:19am
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 12:53am:
I hope I do not risk having my "senior member" status revoked by revealing that I have little interest in subscribing to services from uncontactable offshore discount telephone service providers that require you to dial override prefixes for some calls as well as consulting the clock, a set of tariff tables and perhaps a website before making a telephone call.

I believe that this places me in the same position as most of those whose interests we are aiming to serve by campaigning against improper use of revenue sharing numbers. (I recognise that others have wider campaigning objectives.)

...


I completely agree with you, SilentCallsVictim. We should ensure that people can make calls at standard cost to any company or organisation they need to call. If there is some special prefix that allows cheaper calls for particular numbers, all well and good, but no-one can expect that to be universal for all numbers. Rather, they should consider it a special deal on the numbers to which the cheaper call is available.

With a (partial) end to revenue sharing, we have a far less distorted market. Providers are free to offer whatever prices they want to call particular numbers. It's up to the consumer: pay a bit more line rental for inclusive calls, or pay less line rental but pay for daytime calls. This was never an option with 0870 numbers.

Having said that, there's no reason we can't offer alternative 01/02 numbers for 03 numbers in the database. And if an 0845 number exists, it will presumably already be in the database - it's possible to search for the 03 number and find an 0845 number, if that's cheaper during the daytime.
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #23 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 11:48am
 
The problem and reason mr_feedback started this thread was because 18185 has stopped allowing calls to 03 numbers. I have just tried one using its prefix from a BT line and it gives network busy. This did not used to be the case and 03 numbers could be dialled and were charged as per 01/02 calls.
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #24 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 12:45pm
 
Dave wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 11:48am:
The problem and reason mr_feedback started this thread was because 18185 has stopped allowing calls to 03 numbers. I have just tried one using its prefix from a BT line and it gives network busy. This did not used to be the case and 03 numbers could be dialled and were charged as per 01/02 calls.


I have previously had read receipts for emails sent to info@finarea.ch and igor.tracchia@finarea.ch in respect of the barking dogs call connection issue on 18185.

I then also had an email from service@finarea.ch saying they had applied a £20 credit to my account in respect of the barking dogs issue (because it caused me to make an unnecessary return journey of 90 miles as I thought burglars had broken in to my mother's house), although I don't think the credit ever turned up (surprise, surprise).

Igor Tracchia is the boss man of Finarea (1899, 18866, 18185 et al) so if people email him on the 03 number non connectivity issue this may help get the issue resolved.

I now have an all calls package with yourcalls.net for 01, 02, 03 numbers but I still use 18185 for calling mobile phone numbers and the barking dogs issue has not recurred in recent months.
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #25 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 1:21pm
 
mr_feedback wrote on Nov 5th, 2008 at 10:57pm:
jrawle "call inclusive" packages are not free, you pay a higher cost for the service than if there were no inclusive calls so if you don't do enough calling to require a call inclusive deal, and until these 03 numbers started coming up you'd have had to spend well over 15 hours on the phone per month to beat £5 line rental and 0.5p per minute with free weekend calls before BT's £10.50 a month was a good deal (and even then you can get 5p per call flat with 0844 calls on BT, that doesn't apply to 03xx so it's still a bad deal). I don't, but I do spend 5 or 6 hours on the month to companies who have now changed to these 03xx numbers which are MORE EXPENSIVE THAN IT IS FOR ME TO CALL GEOGRAPHICAL NUMBERS. And it really was that simple, that was my whole complaint - that they are not the same as geographical numbers.

Now I know you don't agree as 03xx are not more expensive for YOU to call than geographical numbers. And that's OK. Obviously the party is over for me and I will have to find another £40 a year and change telephone companies. It's not the end of the world. If you had listed GEOGRAPHICAL NUMBERS as alternatives to 03xx numbers I would not have this problem but really what I took offense at was because I didn't understand what 03xx numbers were intended to be when I made the first post having just been told they cost 8p a minute; and I'm still (somewhat) put out the numbers are supposed to be an end to the rip off of 08xx numbers and THEY COST A NUMBER OF PEOPLE INCLUDING ME MORE RIGHT NOW. So it's like a big joke, a return of the non-geographic numbers.

But I get that 03xx numbers are what you wanted all along and that's fine. You worked for the change and I didn't so I'll have to find a new phone provider and pay a bit more money. That's life, I withdraw my complaint Wink



As I have said before call packages ARE free with BT, well evening and week end anyway, you do not have to pay any extra for this, just agree to sign up to a 12 month contract.
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #26 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 1:31pm
 
sherbert wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 1:21pm:
As I have said before call packages ARE free with BT, well evening and week end anyway, you do not have to pay any extra for this, just agree to sign up to a 12 month contract.


So you think signing up with BT for 12 months doesn't have an opportunity cost then? Roll Eyes Shocked
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #27 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 2:32pm
 
Dave wrote on Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:50pm:
I don't know how you pay 0.5p/min to 0845 during the daytime. I think any provider offering such a rate is likely to be making a loss.


.


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=5357468&postcount=59


0845-----------Weekday- Evening---Weekend

BT -------- 7p + 2p/min. -½p/min.--2p/½p/min. (BT's Day/Evening prices apply weekends too)
18185------ 5p + 3p/min. -½p/min.- -½p/min.
08081703703 4p + ½p/min.--½p/min.- -½p/min. (This is 18185's freephone gateway number)


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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #28 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 2:40pm
 
derrick wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 2:32pm:
Dave wrote on Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:50pm:
I don't know how you pay 0.5p/min to 0845 during the daytime. I think any provider offering such a rate is likely to be making a loss.


.


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=5357468&postcount=59


0845-----------Weekday- Evening---Weekend

BT -------- 7p + 2p/min. -½p/min.--2p/½p/min. (BT's Day/Evening prices apply weekends too)
18185------ 5p + 3p/min. -½p/min.- -½p/min.
08081703703 4p + ½p/min.--½p/min.- -½p/min. (This is 18185's freephone gateway number)

That's 4p/min during the daytime and 0.5p/min during the evening and weekend. I took it that the OP was saying that 0845 calls cost 0.5p/min during the daytime via 18185's non-BT dial-through numbers (either 020 or 0808).
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« Last Edit: Nov 6th, 2008 at 2:41pm by Dave »  
 
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Re: 03 numbers are bad you broke the website
Reply #29 - Nov 6th, 2008 at 4:10pm
 
sherbert wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 1:21pm:
As I have said before call packages ARE free with BT, well evening and week end anyway, you do not have to pay any extra for this, just agree to sign up to a 12 month contract.


I thought the OP claimed that he paid £5 per month for line rental on Virgin, so the point is it would cost more to move to BT (although if you want a decent broadband service, you have to have a PSTN line). Also, he wants to make calls during the day, so evening and weekend calls are not so much use.

Personally I have signed up for BT's 12 month contract as I want to stay with them to ensure I have access to all the codes for international numbers, etc. which I can't guarantee I'll get with anyone else.
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