SAYNOTO0870.COM - BBC still using 0845

jrawle

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Re: BBC still using 0845
Reply #15 - Nov 18^th, 2008 at 12:00pm

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 11:48pm:

As to BBC Radio Five Live and its 0500 number the reason for change is obvious. Namely that landline callers have their call entirely paid for by other licence payers while mobile callers pay through the nose and have the call excluded from bundled minutes due to the anomalous charging status of so called Freephone numbers from mobiles. Use of the 0500 code is also daft as 0500 is not widely recognised by the public as even being a Freephone number as Radio 5 Live's 0500 is one of the very few 0500 Freephone numbers that are still in use.

Of course, the licence fee payer pays just as much towards the call of a mobile user as to that of a landline user. It's just that in the former case, both parties pay for the call - the height of stupidity! The whole issue of freephone numbers from mobiles has to be addressed. There is no justification for them being treated differently from geographical numbers.

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NGMsGhost

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Re: BBC still using 0845
Reply #16 - Nov 18^th, 2008 at 1:03pm

poppasmurf wrote on Nov 18^th, 2008 at 9:35am:

Just to correct one minor error in an above post, the show was on Sunday, not Monday.

I sent the below further email to Michael Stock at the BBC last night to clarify that point and also to provide a link to the program giving an indication of where the 0845 is local rate comments could be found.

Quote:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Program Date & Precise Location of 0845 Item In Program
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 02:45:55 +0000
To: michael.stock@bbc.co.uk
CC: mark.thompson@bbc.co.uk, jana.bennett@bbc.co.uk, jay.hunt@bbc.co.uk, david.jordan@bbc.co.uk, politicsshow@bbc.co.uk, jon.sopel@bbc.co.uk, paola.buonadonna@bbc.co.uk, max.cotton@bbc.co.uk, gillian.hargreaves@bbc.co.uk, david.thompson@bbc.co.uk, sarah.falkland@bbc.co.uk, glenn.campbell@bbc.co.uk, adrian.masters@bbc.co.uk, laura.bundock@bbc.co.uk, marie.ashby@bbc.co.uk, tim.donovan@bbc.co.uk, richard.moss@bbc.co.uk, peter.henley@bbc.co.uk, paul.siegert@bbc.co.uk, sophie.long@bbc.co.uk, david.garmston@bbc.co.uk, clare.frisby@bbc.co.uk, martyn.oates@bbc.co.uk, john.boothman@bbc.co.uk, lucy.breakwell@bbc.co.uk, tom.burridge@bbc.co.uk, paul.doran@bbc.co.uk, chris.lyddon@bbc.co.uk, deborah.mcgurran@bbc.co.uk, mark.palmer@bbc.co.uk, sean.stowell@bbc.co.uk, ian.paul@bbc.co.uk, nick.watson@bbc.co.uk, michael.wild@bbc.co.uk, ian.durant@bbc.co.uk, paul.cannon@bbc.co.uk, gavin.allen@bbc.co.uk, matthew.cooper@bbc.co.uk, kerry.paschali@bbc.co.uk, joanne.hilditch@bbc.co.uk, anne.moore@bbc.co.uk, samir.shah@junipertv.co.uk, samir.shah@bbc.co.uk, denys.blakeway@blakeway.co.uk, fiona.stourton@blakeway.co.uk, anna.watson@blakeway.co.uk, tom.archer@bbc.co.uk, ric.bailey@bbc.co.uk, michael.collie@bbc.co.uk
References: <4921F7D1.1050704@grenehurst.plus.com>

Dear Mr Stock,

Further to my earlier email this is just to confirm that The Politics
Show I am complaining about is actually the Sunday 16th November edition
(not Monday 17th November) of the West Midlands version of the program
and the incorrect reference to the cost of an 0845 call being "local
rate" by Michael Collie occurs at 43 minutes and 8 seconds in to the show.

The program can currently be watched again at
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00fmykf/The_Politics_Show_West_Midlands_16112008/

I hope this is helpful to your subsequent investigation in to the matter.

Regards,

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NGMsGhost

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Re: BBC still using 0845
Reply #17 - Nov 18^th, 2008 at 1:07pm

jrawle wrote on Nov 18^th, 2008 at 12:00pm:

Of course, the licence fee payer pays just as much towards the call of a mobile user as to that of a landline user. It's just that in the former case, both parties pay for the call - the height of stupidity! The whole issue of freephone numbers from mobiles has to be addressed. There is no justification for them being treated differently from geographical numbers.

Unfortunately I think that hell is likely to freeze over first while New Labour toady Ed Richards remains in control of Ofcom.

Without a complete change in management at Ofcom all the deliberate 084/7 abuses with their behind the scenes sanction from Ofcom will be allowed to continue by some of New Labour's most important commercial friends.

The only reason the latest BBC "0845 is a local rate call" mistake could happen is because Ofcom does absolutely nothing to educate the public about its introduction of 03 and why 084 and 087 is likely to cost the public so much extra to call.

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« Last Edit: Nov 18^th, 2008 at 1:08pm by NGMsGhost »

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poppasmurf

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Re: BBC still using 0845
Reply #18 - Dec 7^th, 2008 at 5:23pm

Today's show on the Midlands opt out of The Politics Show (Sunday December 7th) was little improved from that which I originally complained. They are still showing the 0845 number, but now say "Calls will cost 10p with BT. Charges from other providers may vary.

Somebody has evidently said something but the BBC in the Midlands still haven't got it right.

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NGMsGhost

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Re: BBC still using 0845
Reply #19 - Dec 7^th, 2008 at 10:57pm

poppasmurf wrote on Dec 7^th, 2008 at 5:23pm:

Today's show on the Midlands opt out of The Politics Show (Sunday December 7th) was little improved from that which I originally complained. They are still showing the 0845 number, but now say "Calls will cost 10p with BT. Charges from other providers may vary.

Somebody has evidently said something but the BBC in the Midlands still haven't got it right.

Send an email to michael.stock@bbc.co.uk (the man responsible for the BBC's 084/7 and 03 telecoms contracts) and the presenter plus the series producer and editor of the show (watch the credits on BBC Iplayer) pointing out what was wrong and how it needs to be corrected and eventually they will get the message.

Also make a formal complaint at www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

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poppasmurf

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Re: BBC still using 0845
Reply #20 - Dec 7^th, 2008 at 11:44pm

I have sent the following email, as you suggested:

Sir

Todays programme of The Politics Show West Midlands is still using the unfair 0845 premium rate number, but have now changed from claiming the call is charged at 'local rate' of a few weeks ago, to now claiming the cost is '10p' via BT, which is also incorrect.

If the BBC must continue to use premium rate numbers, could you ensure that you at least give the viewing public the correct rate for calling these outrageous numbers.

I look forward to hearing from you that the correct rate will be given over air, or better still, that the 0845 premium rate numbers are to be replaced by 03 numbers very quickly.

Thank you.

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NGMsGhost

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Re: BBC still using 0845
Reply #21 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 12:20am

poppasmurf wrote on Dec 7^th, 2008 at 11:44pm:

I look forward to hearing from you that the correct rate will be given over air, or better still, that the 0845 premium rate numbers are to be replaced by 03 numbers very quickly.

But do you think you should perhaps advise them what the correct rate that they should be quoting is:-

eg:- 0845 calls can cost up to 5p per minute to call from a home landline and 40p per minute from a mobile phone. I would suggest the comparison with only BT is irrelevant with TalkTalk, Virgin and Sky all now having made large inroads in to the home landline marketplace and with mobile phones now accounting for over 25% of UK calling volumes the price for calls to 0845 from a mobile surely must also be quoted.

Also point out that none of this would be necessary if they moves to an 03 phone number where callers simply pay their normal landline calling rate. Query why they have not followed the policy of the mainstream BBC Information call centre etc, etc.

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: BBC still using 0845
Reply #22 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 1:08am

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 7^th, 2008 at 10:57pm:

poppasmurf wrote on Dec 7^th, 2008 at 5:23pm:

... "Calls will cost 10p with BT. Charges from other providers may vary ...

... pointing out what was wrong ...

What is wrong is attempting to conceal (or admit to) receipt of the benefits of revenue sharing by meaningless references to retail telephone charges. It is also wrong to use BT as an example, because its charges for calls to 0845 numbers vary from the pattern set by others, being perversely discounted.

A more honest (if over-lengthy) statement would read:
Quote:

This is not a "premium rate service", however part of the charge for calling this 0845 "revenue sharing" number is for the benefit of the recipient. Your telephone service provider will therefore be likely to charge more than for ordinary calls and to exclude calls to this number from packages.

If it was acceptable to promote one of many competing providers, it could continue:
Quote:

Call charges vary, but the BBC recommends BT".

It is statements such as this which are required of those who use revenue sharing numbers.

The BBC would be far better advised to belatedly give up the unnecessary use of 0845 revenue sharing numbers altogether. Their defensible purpose in offering local rate calls for all residential landline callers in a BBC region expired nearly five years ago.

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NGMsGhost

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Re: BBC still using 0845
Reply #23 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 8:43am

For once I agree with all you say SCV but I do not think this will be achieved unless as many members as possible of this website submit a formal complaint about each and every continuing use of 0844. 0845 and 0871 by the BBC and especially any continuing use of incorrect price descriptions for these numbers wherever they occur.

One complaint from Poppasmurf will be ignored but if 7 or 8 or us complain about the same program's misquotation of 084/7 call prices it will begin to be taken seriously.

So have you yet submitted your complaint about the incorrect description of call prices in this show SCV? I am about to go and now submit my complaint.

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: BBC still using 0845
Reply #24 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 11:34am

Let us not disappoint those who are entertained by our disagreements NGMsG.

A recent case indeed shows how the BBC responds to complaints only when submitted in volume. However the volume exceeded single digits and the complaint was supported by comments in the media and by politicians.

I do not use this forum to provide a running commentary on my campaigning activities, although matters which achieve public attention will properly be covered. I am happy to provide advice to others on tactics that may be effective and to suggest channels that could be used. I would not however seek to openly challenge any specific member to act in any particular way.

The number of representations on a point can have a bearing, however I would suggest that the number has to be sizable as a proportion of those who are served before it can make a difference on those grounds alone. It is the power of our arguments, rather than the number of us who are presenting them, that is our strength.

I believe that we should be focused on ensuring that the best arguments are presented to the right people in each organisation that is likely to respond. I commend NGMsG and others for their successes campaigning in this way and will myself consider carefully how this can be further achieved with the BBC, noting points that are being made in this thread and elsewhere in this forum. It is unlikely that I will post details of what action I may take.

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