SAYNOTO0870.COM - Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844

NGMsGhost

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Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Dec 11^th, 2008 at 3:28pm

I thought some of you might be interested in a news story just published on the CBR Networking website (some kind of news website for the IT industry) that good old NTL has managed to con Air Miles in to moving from using 0870 phone numbers to 0844 phone numbers and that according to this news story that this is all some huge improvement in their communications infrastructure of which they and NTL can be justly proud. Shocked

Those of you on this website who may perhaps take an alternate point of view, as I do, may perhaps care to post your comments in response to this story at:-

http://networking.cbronline.com/news/ntltelewest_helps_airmiles_change_contact_c...

EDIT:- It appears that the comments made in response to stories on this news website are moderated before they appear and mine in the name of a Mr NGMs Ghost from GeographicVille of Surrey have not so far been published. However this was only a few minute ago so I will give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being. However you may need to give them a real name and phone number if you want your comments to actually be published.

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« Last Edit: Dec 11^th, 2008 at 3:39pm by NGMsGhost »

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jrawle Supreme Member Offline Posts: 708 Didcot, Oxfordshire Gender:	Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844 Reply #1 - Dec 11^th, 2008 at 5:03pm And guess what? The number is 0844 49 333 66, and 0844 493 is charged at the maximum 5p/min. I didn't even realise there was still such thing as NTL:Telewest, but they seem still to use that name for business customers.
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NGMsGhost

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Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Reply #2 - Dec 11^th, 2008 at 5:18pm

jrawle wrote on Dec 11^th, 2008 at 5:03pm:

And guess what? The number is 0844 49 333 66, and 0844 493 is charged at the maximum 5p/min.

You mean jrawle that you know of a single call centre operation in the UK that charges 0844 calls at a rate other than 5p per minute? Wink

While of course some of the dial through operators use 0844 at all kinds of rates from 1p per 5p per minute we all know that call centre operators use 0844 precisely only because of the continuing conning of the public that 084 is in some way "local rate" and the total failure of the cretinous, corrupt and inept so called regulator to even take action against the numerous telcos who still send out phone bills shown 0845 as "lo-call" or "local rate". Also at the same time there is no requirement for proper price disclosure of any kind on 0844 numbers just like 0845 numbers. Shocked

The most likely eventual outcome on 0870 (and apparently we are awaiting a statement from Ofcom before the end of this month) is that Ofcom will state that they will not become charged at geographic rate but there will be a greater requirement for price disclosure and warning messages than on 0844 and 0845 numbers.

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Dave

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Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Reply #3 - Dec 11^th, 2008 at 7:08pm

The level of payment which telephone companies such as ntl:Telewest that operate 0870 and 0844 5p/min (g6) numbers get from BT is as follows:

0870

	Min	Max
Daytime	5.8275	6.6064
Evening	3.9187	4.2753
Weekend	1.6884	1.9693

0844 g6 5p/min

	Min	Max
Daytime	4.1799	4.9589
Evening	4.7269	5.0836
Weekend	4.8987	5.1795

Source: BT Wholesale Carrier Price List Section B1, part 1.02.3.

Opening hours are:

Monday to Friday 8am - 8pm
Saturday 9am - 5pm
Sunday 10am - 4pm

Whilst ntl:Telewest is receiving less during the weekday daytime, in evenings and weekends it gets far more.

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« Last Edit: Dec 11^th, 2008 at 7:10pm by Dave »

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NGMsGhost

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Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Reply #4 - Dec 11^th, 2008 at 7:19pm

Interesting information Dave but why on earth do NTL Telewest actually receive more from BT for calls to 0844 in the evening and more again at the weekend when the rate to the caller for calling 0844 is I think the same from a BT line 24/7?

I am sure that the weekday evening and especially the weekend is a very busy time for flight bookings at Air Miles so I very much doubt there is any loss of revenue involved at all.

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Dave

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Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Reply #5 - Dec 11^th, 2008 at 7:26pm

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 11^th, 2008 at 7:19pm:

Interesting information Dave but why on earth do NTL Telewest actually receive more from BT for calls to 0844 in the evening and more again at the weekend when the rate to the caller for calling 0844 is I think the same from a BT line 24/7?

The amount BT retains is regulated under the "NTS Condition". It costs BT less to originate calls during the evening and weekend, hence it is allowed to keep less and passes more to terminating providers.

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 11^th, 2008 at 7:19pm:

I am sure that the weekday evening and especially the weekend is a very busy time for flight bookings at Air Miles so I very much doubt there is any loss of revenue involved at all.

Indeed. So all in all any difference, if any, is likely to be negligible.

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« Last Edit: Dec 11^th, 2008 at 7:31pm by Dave »

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NGMsGhost

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Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Reply #6 - Dec 11^th, 2008 at 8:09pm

Dave wrote on Dec 11^th, 2008 at 7:26pm:

The amount BT retains is regulated under the "NTS Condition". It costs BT less to originate calls during the evening and weekend, hence it is allowed to keep less and passes more to terminating providers.

It still seems a very perverse outcome that this means that the recipient of 0844 NTS calls actually ends up with a much higher revenue stream in the evening and at the weekend, periods that the public always perceives as being a cheaper time to make calls.

Surely this is yet further proof of just how uncompetitive the whole NTS termination charges system actually is. If the termination charges are much lower in the evening and at the weekend then why on earth is there a blatant cartel on 0844 5p per minute rate prices by the telcos to all charge the same rate on a 24/7 basis? Except of course by the mobile operators who just multiply the charge by 6 or 8 for reasons best known only to themselves and their greedy fatcat directors. Shocked

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Dave

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Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Reply #7 - Dec 11^th, 2008 at 8:51pm

As a self-proclaimed well seasoned stalwart of the campaign against revenue sharing numbers you are showing your ignorance. Roll Eyes

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 11^th, 2008 at 8:09pm:

Surely this is yet further proof of just how uncompetitive the whole NTS termination charges system actually is. ...

There is no competition in any telephone termination charges. How can there be? Huh

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 11^th, 2008 at 8:09pm:

...If the termination charges are much lower in the evening and at the weekend then why on earth is there a blatant cartel on 0844 5p per minute rate prices by the telcos to all charge the same rate on a 24/7 basis? ...

The termination charges for g6 aren't lower during evening and weekends, quite the opposite. The figures I quoted are the termination payments from BT to other providers.

Furthermore, I cannot see how there can be any "cartel" type behaviour because BT has the greatest economies of scale and so it is expected that it can originate calls cheaper than anyone else. Therefore, if anything we would expect originating providers other than BT to charge more and not less.

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« Last Edit: Dec 11^th, 2008 at 9:06pm by Dave »

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jrawle

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Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Reply #8 - Dec 11^th, 2008 at 9:18pm

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 11^th, 2008 at 5:18pm:

You mean jrawle that you know of a single call centre operation in the UK that charges 0844 calls at a rate other than 5p per minute? Wink

Kings Place, the new concert hall in London, has an 0844 number that's only 1p/min. There is also a geographical number on some of their literature, which was discussed in a thread here a few weeks ago.

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NGMsGhost

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Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Reply #9 - Dec 11^th, 2008 at 9:34pm

jrawle wrote on Dec 11^th, 2008 at 9:18pm:

Kings Place, the new concert hall in London, has an 0844 number that's only 1p/min. There is also a geographical number on some of their literature, which was discussed in a thread here a few weeks ago.

But if only the management of Kings Place knew how much it costs to call a 1p per minute from a landline 0844 number on most mobile phones they might think better of their choice of phone number. Shocked

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NGMsGhost

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Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Reply #10 - Dec 11^th, 2008 at 9:38pm

Dave wrote on Dec 11^th, 2008 at 8:51pm:

As a self-proclaimed well seasoned stalwart of the campaign against revenue sharing numbers you are showing your ignorance. Roll Eyes

.

Since you are quite clearly the actual but not the officially proclaimed controlling mind of this website perhaps you could therefore help enlighten this mere enthusiastic supporter of the campaign in respect of his lack of detailed inside industry knowledge on this particular point.

By the way I wonder whatever became of DaveM and andy9? Roll Eyes

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NGMsGhost

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Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Reply #11 - Dec 11^th, 2008 at 10:34pm

The story about the Air Miles number change from 0870 to 0844 is also reported on the Computing News website which is bizarrely hosted in Belarus but has Google advertisting for ofcomwatch.co.uk and two UK 0844 number vending companies.

See http://home.nestor.minsk.by/computers/news/2008/12/1104.html

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« Last Edit: Dec 11^th, 2008 at 10:35pm by NGMsGhost »

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844 Reply #12 - May 4^th, 2009 at 2:32pm The story of AirMiles switching to "lower rate" 0844 numbers is reported on ntl:Telewest's site: http://www.ntltelewestbusiness.com/news__events/enewsletter/enewsletter_spring_2...
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NGMsGhost

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Re: Air Miles Move From Ripoff 0870 to Ripoff 0844
Reply #13 - May 4^th, 2009 at 2:59pm

Dave wrote on May 4^th, 2009 at 2:32pm:

The story of AirMiles switching to "lower rate" 0844 numbers is reported on ntl:Telewest's site:

http://www.ntltelewestbusiness.com/news__events/enewsletter/enewsletter_spring_2...

Please Dave. What about my blood pressure. Tongue

I already have enough current issues with these duplicitous lieing toe rags trying to completely wipe out all of the 10,000 miles I have built up on my account over the last 18 years if I don't start collecting more Air Miles with them (I had given up collecting new Air Miles in favour of cash back credit cards and cash back on Shell petrol because of the difficulty of ever redeeming Air Miles on the flights you actually want to go on) and with claiming false destination availability to the Scottish Isles (Kirkwall (Orkneys), Sumburgh (Shetlands), Stornoway (Western Isles), Islay and Tiree) on their Zone 1 map on which no Air Miles flights actually exist any time in the next 12 months.

See http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=21210837

Fortunately though a large range of geographical alternatives for reaching Air Miles sales, customer service and main switchboard listed on this website do at least all still work, despite the money grubbing 0870 to 0844 phone number switch.

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« Last Edit: May 4^th, 2009 at 3:00pm by NGMsGhost »

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