It's just been one BBC News that the 0844 numbers will remain the same but the cost will be reduced to the local rate.


A quote from Dr Vautrey from the Yorkshire Evening Post:

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Leeds-GP-welcomes-move-to.5643534.jp

Dr Vautrey said his surgery used an 0844 number but the company supplying it had assured the Government it cost no more than a local call.

Have just come home after being out all day & with no access to radio/TV/internet.  The BBC radio news this morning led me to believe it was a done deal & 0844s would be banned.   This "result" is appallingly disappointing and an absolute nonsense  as others here have said - how on earth can a GP, even if willing, control the costs charged by a teleco to each of his patients?   It is a stupid announcement made by those who choose not to understand the situation.  I suspect that what they mean is that as long as the notional cost per minute is no higher than a "local" (ie non-existent) call, that is OK no matter how many people pay more because of packages etc.  It is enough to make one cry!

Another worry is that I have just had a letter from this O'Brien man sent to me by my MP which is supposed to be reassuring over the genetic prscribing issue, I was going to forward it to Epilepsy Action but now wonder whether it is worth it as O'Brien is just someone who plays with words to bury his true meaning and obviously cannot be trusted.

Our GPs do not use 0844, thank goodness, but I would much rather redial than be held in a queue anyway, at least I can leave it a few minutes & call again, if you are in a queue you feel compelled to keep one's place or it could be even longer.   Last Friday, we needed to speak to a GP as a member of the family who was ill was getting worse rather than better, we were promised a call back, it did not materialise until about seven phone calls (& six hours!) later.   How much would that have cost us if our GPs did have an 0844 what with the endless menus etc?!

This situation is now even more of a disgrace than it was and shows this govt just thinks everyone else is really really stupid.

A report from Which?:

Which? scores a win on cost of calling your GP

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2009/09/which-scores-a-win-on-cost-of-calling-your-g...

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Source: Politics.co.uk

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/health/doubts-remain-as-nhs-premium-rates-numbers...

<<
Doubts remain as NHS premium rates numbers scrapped
Monday, 14, Sep 2009 10:33
By Alex Stevenson

There are fears GPs could face a funding shortfall after the government's decision to abandon premium rate phone numbers for NHS organisations.

Ministers are committing to ensuring patients do not have to pay more than the cost of a local call - amid fears it will not be able to live up to the pledge.

[…]

"It is clear from the feedback we have received that patients support the banning of any number or tariff which is more expensive to call," Mr O'Brien said.

"For people on low incomes, and for those who need to contact their local doctor or hospital regularly, these costs can soon build up. We want to reassure the public that when they contact their local GP or hospital, the cost of their call will be no more expensive than if they had dialled a normal landline number."

This commitment, campaigner David Hickson claimed to politics.co.uk, is simply unrealistic.

"That's what they think they can say - they will shortly find out that is wrong. Or alternatively the minister will have to go back on his assurance," he said.

084 premium rate numbers charge a transmission fee significantly higher than normal calls, payable by the caller's telephone company to the telephone company managing the organisation with the 084 number.

Mr Hickson has conducted detailed research to show the extent of GPs within the NHS which rely on 084 numbers - an average of around ten per cent, although five have over 20 per cent.

After offsetting any charges, revenues from the premium rate numbers are shared between the company and the number-holder. GPs typically use the cash to finance the services they offer.

"If you are going to disallow a situation whereby patients and others pay more than the cost of a local call, you're dreaming if you think revenue-sharing can carry on," Mr Hickson explained.

[…]

>>

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The DH's statement says:

3. The ban on the use of numbers charging patients a premium rate to call NHS services will allow a marketplace to evolve where 084 numbers compete alongside 01, 02 and 03 numbers, but where patients will pay no more than the cost of a local call. The ban means that GPs and other NHS organisations remain free to use 084 numbers, providing patients are not charged more than a local rate number.

6. The ban will be enforced through proposed changes to the GP contract (in consultation with the British Medical Association’s GP Committee), and the issuing of Directions to NHS PCTs and Trusts. These changes will be put in place as soon as practicable.

This suggests that GPs will be responsible for controlling the charges to their telephone numbers.


However, the BMA's statement says:

Changes to 084 number tariffs, which will ensure that patients who call them do not pay more than the equivalent cost of a local number, are the fairest way forward for patients and practices, the BMA said today (Monday 14 September 2009).

It doesn't look like GPs will be doing anything with the BMA passing the buck. Maybe the DH, Ofcom, the telephone companies or the tooth fairy will change the tariffs.

So does this mean that there is a stalemate with no way of implementing the Minister's pledge?  


The Minister said that there is strong feeling among patients for a ban and that changes will be made to ensure that they will be charged at no higher rate than a call to a normal landline number:

“We have been concerned that some people are paying more than the cost of a local call rate to contact the NHS.  It is clear from the feedback we have received that patients support the banning of any number or tariff which is more expensive to call.

“For people on low incomes, and for those who need to contact their local doctor or hospital regularly, these costs can soon build up. We want to reassure the public that when they contact their local GP or hospital, the cost of their call will be no more expensive than if they had dialled a normal landline number.”

So how will Mr O'Brien's pledge be delivered?

Heinz wrote on Sep 15^th, 2009 at 8:21am:


... also forgotten are those who subscibe to Virgin Media, or a call plan from any of the "BT clones" such as Talk Talk.

If this were to happen, the BT publicity - "sign up to a call plan, but that will mean you have to pay extra to call your GP", will be interesting.

I do not believe that it will happen as suggested as any discussion of points of detail will cause this situation, as it stands, to fall apart.


Unless there is something very clever that we do not know about yet, the DH and the BMA are still at loggerheads over this. They have each declared their negotiating positions.

The DH says - we don't care what number you use so long as it does not cost the caller more than the cost of an ordinary call. If you can find a number that meets that requirement, then you are free to use it and to keep your revenue share.

The BMA says - it's your job to protect our revenue share income and make the necessary arrangements with the telephone companies to ensure that the numbers we use are "local rate" like we were told, and as you confirmed in 2005.

The fault is in presenting these negotiating positions as if this were a solution, and in not having moved forward in 18 months.

N.B. In referring to the BMA, I do not mean those working in the 90% of surgeries who do not use revenue sharing numbers, nor the few hundred who apparently responded to the consultation suggesting that their own use of 084 numbers be banned (there is no specific figure, but if you do the maths it has to be around 300). I am referring to the chief negotiator from the General Practioner's Committee, who seems to be adopting a position that may not be shared by his members in general.

hello

this is my first post as I am enraged by this.

after trwaling through the BT website, it looks like it will be more expensive to call a normal number from a BT phone during the day (when the doctors are open) than ringing an 0844.

Please correct my maths if I am wrong.

call to uk landline post 1st October 5.25ppm, cost to 0844 5ppm,
call set up for uk landline 9p per call, call set up to 0844 2.97p per call

So instead of the costs reducing by this none ban, the cost (although not directly attached although I do have a conspiracy theory) is going up.

The 0844 at least paid towards the surgery whilst the cost of the call to the 01 number is going straight to BT

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayCategory.do?catego... is the BT pricing


am I right?

geesus1 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2009 at 11:49am:

This is BT's position for its most basic tariff. The "all inclusive" one still charges 0844 numbers at the 5ppm, but geographical calls at 0ppm.

The nature of the market for geographical calls is that there are varying tariffs. In general, from landlines there are the two extremes: all inclusive and chargeable.

In contrast, 0844 calls drive a coach and horses through this process and remain the same irrespective of tariff.

andy9 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2009 at 5:24pm:

The DH news release states that "phone numbers that charge the public or patients a premium rate to contact the NHS are to be banned". It goes on to say "The ban means that GPs and other NHS organisations remain free to use 084 numbers, providing patients are not charged more than a local rate number."

So GPs can use 084 and.or revenue sharing numbers where they cost no more than a call to a normal landline number.

Of course, we know that this isn't possible, so in effect it means a ban on 084 numbers. However, the BMA thinks that changes in tariffs will be made so that GPs can continue using their 084 numbers.