SAYNOTO0870.COM - Doctors' phone line use reviewed

SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta
Reply #60 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 7:34pm

Dave wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 5:39pm:

Source: OnMedica http://www.onmedica.com/NewsArticle.aspx?id=bffec7e7-3e4d-416d-a9b0-cfb605742428

BT drops practices 0845 phone number charges

Registered users of this site, "the leading online medical publication for doctors and UK healthcare", will be able to read the following comments on this article.

Quote:

BT has not dropped any charges, it has added two types of call which may be called without further charge to packages that apply at certain times for those who pay to subscribe.
Only 1.4 million BT customers will be able to call the 272 GP surgeries with 0845 numbers in South Yorkshire and the West Midlands, plus a few others, during normal surgery hours. The NHS serves many others.
There is no way that calls to these, or over 1000 GPs using 0844 numbers, could ever become free for all BT customers at all times. The facts of revenue sharing mean that we will never see all companies offering all 084 calls at normal rates.

GPs and other NHS providers who continue to benefit from the subsidy obtained by use of 084 revenue sharing numbers must now change to 03 numbers, if they need the extra network functions.
03 numbers must be included in packages or charged at no more standard landlines (01 / 02 numbers). Revenue sharing is prohibited, so services have to be funded properly, not out of fees paid by patients, whether in call charges or package subscriptions.

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta
Reply #61 - Jan 20^th, 2009 at 3:52am

I understand that a small number of printed copies of the consultation document have been despatched to every GP surgery in England to be made available to patients and staff who may wish to respond.

Requests for further copies, and reports of none being received are being handled by the consultation team at 084consultation@dh.gsi.gov.uk.

Members may wish to approach their local practices to ensure that the consultation process is progressing properly. Support is just as likely to be found at practices where staff and patients wish to retain the principles of the NHS, as at those where they are being breached.

Many practices recently encouraged patients to sign petitions in favour of supporting the NHS through the "Save our Surgeries" campaign. They may also be keen to promote the petition to preserve the principles of the NHS - http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Healthtelephone/ - as promoted on this site.

I would urge members to make the point that the consultation is not about returning to ineffective telephone systems as the only alternative to patients paying for them. Each surgery must have the best telephone system that it can, but it must be funded properly.

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SilentCallsVictim Supreme Member Offline aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms Posts: 2,494	Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta Reply #62 - Jan 26^th, 2009 at 2:00am Some good news - Pharmacists back ban on practices' 084 numbers (The press release is found here) Most local pharmacies use local numbers, however there are some which use 084 and even 087 numbers. Those which are registered providers of NHS services will be covered by the ban.
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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta
Reply #63 - Feb 24^th, 2009 at 6:17pm

Some good news (for those who enjoy a fight).

The GPC of the BMA has declared the BMA position on the consultation - see page 6 of this document

Apart from some waffle about contracts, which can be addressed, and BT, which is irrelevant, the main point is standing in opposition to the principle of the NHS being "free at the point of need".

Quote:

we believe that people should be charged as low a cost as possible to call NHS services but that this has to be balanced by the quality of service the patients are accessing

This simply begs the question of how much a patient should be charged for a high quality operation on the NHS, or high quality nursing care. "As low a cost as possible" perhaps, but the NHS constitution declares that there can be no cost imposed on a NHS patient.

Let us hope that the majority of BMA members, who hold to the principles of the NHS, will let their voices be heard.

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« Last Edit: Feb 26^th, 2009 at 2:28pm by Dave »

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Dave

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Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta
Reply #64 - Feb 24^th, 2009 at 9:09pm

This is the bit that is complete and utter nonsense!

Quote:

We also welcome BT’s decision to allow 0845 numbers to be free within their call packages. This suggests that the Government could encourage all telephone companies to review their call charges to NHS services, and include 084 numbers in comprehensive call packages so that patients do not incur additional costs.

They expect telephone call retailers to stand to far far higher charges (14 times) and include them at zero fee!!!

Do GPs live in the real world????

This evidence leads me to believe that some do not.

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« Last Edit: Feb 24^th, 2009 at 9:24pm by Dave »

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Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta
Reply #65 - Feb 25^th, 2009 at 2:13pm

The E-Health Insider website is now carrying the story on the BMA's disgraceful consultation response:-

See www.ehiprimarycare.com/news/4599/bma_says_084_must_run_its_course

As far as I can see this BMA response is absolutely typical of the patronising non customer focused attitude still displayed by so many GPs (and that my mother has bad personal experience of in the last two years) that has always put me off both them in particular and the medical profession in general.

Namely that doctor always thinks he knows what is best for you and that you must jolly well do as you are told by doctor without question, even if it is complete bunkum, as it is here.

The BMA have proved here that they are nothing more than a trade association who only care about the financial welfare of doctors who have stupidly signed up to these ripoff deals losing money if they are forced to terminate the contracts early by the NHS.

The BMA clearly couldn't give a stuff about the financial consequences of GP accessibility for patients, especially if they need to call their GP on a Payphone or a mobile phone where 0844 is subject to racketeering levels of call pricing. Shocked

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta Reply #66 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 1:26pm Some more links on this: http://community.healthcarerepublic.com/blogs/editors_blog/archive/2009/01/28/do... http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=23&storycode=4121981&c=1 Has BMA published its response publicly or has it just been given to industry journals?
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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta
Reply #67 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 2:27pm

Dave wrote on Feb 26^th, 2009 at 1:26pm:

Has BMA published its response publicly or has it just been given to industry journals?

It has published an outline of what it will be submitting, in the monthly GPC newsletter distributed to local medical committees around the country.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 24^th, 2009 at 6:17pm:

The GPC of the BMA has declared the BMA position on the consultation - see page 6 of this document

(my original posting contains a typo - "GMC" should read "GPC" - I appear to have lost the ability to modify my postings)

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Dave

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Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta
Reply #68 - Feb 27^th, 2009 at 4:33pm

More nonsensical suggestions from doctors:

http://www.healthcarerepublic.com/news/PHARMACIST/883518/GPC-says-practices-exem...

Quote:

The GPC welcomes BT’s decision to allow 0845 numbers to be free within their call packages. It says this suggests that the government could encourage all telephone companies to review their call charges to NHS services and include 084 numbers in comprehensive call packages so that patients do not incur additional costs.

Why should telephone providers with which calls are made (retailers as it were) provide subsidy to GPs when it's not in their interest to do so? Do GPs not realise that a supermarket that sells a product as a loss do so for their own benefit because it will bring customers into the store?

Why would a retailer have a loss leader solely for the benefit of the manufacturer of the product? Roll Eyes

It is crucial that it is understood that the cost of calling all 0844 numbers from BT lines is set by the telephone providers who operate the ranges. GPs are these providers' customers, so are thereby responsible for the higher inter-operator 'wholesale' charges which provide subsidy for their telephone system.

The article goes on to say:
Quote:

A GPC concern is that when the new telephone systems were put in with the 084 numbers, many surgeries had to sign up to a long contract and, even if they want to change, they cannot at the moment.

More nonsense! Are GPs not old enough to understand the implications of opting into a long term contract?

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« Last Edit: Feb 27^th, 2009 at 4:34pm by Dave »

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta Reply #69 - Feb 27^th, 2009 at 4:47pm Stewart Jackson MP also supports the review: http://www.stewartjackson.org.uk/news.html?bM=1&bD=9&bY=2009&bT=244
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Dave

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Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta
Reply #70 - Feb 27^th, 2009 at 4:50pm

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/4112509.Campaign_to_say____no_to_084___/

Campaign to say ‘no to 084’

3:00pm Tuesday 10th February 2009

<<
A PARISH council is urging patients to have their say on the use of 084 numbers at doctors’ surgeries.

Kelvedon Parish Council raised concerns last year when the new numbers were introduced at Kelvedon Surgery, in High Street, in place of the cheaper local code 01376.

Barbara Lord, practice manager, said the number improved service at no extra cost.

The Department of Health has now launched a public consultation on the issue.

Graham Dossett, who campaigned for the parish council on the issue, said: “The council would encourage people to take a few minutes to look at the stuff the Department of Health has published and take less than a minute to tick the boxes and have their say.”

The consultation information is available via the DoH website.

The department document states: “We wish to find out how valuable people think the enhanced functions provided by 084 numbers are, and how they might otherwise be provided without patients having to pay more than a local call rate for them.”

The consultation closes on March 31.
>>

No extra cost to the surgery that is. Roll Eyes

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta
Reply #71 - Mar 6^th, 2009 at 3:12pm

Further to the main consultation process the Department of Health has now announced that there will be two public "events" on 19 March 2009 in London. One for the telecomms industry, the other for "others",

These events, which are announced here, are intended to help inform the consultation process.

Given that the intention is for these events to be relatively small, I fear that the open nature of the invitation will either cause many to be disappointed, or for many further events to have to be arranged.

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redant

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Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta
Reply #72 - Mar 6^th, 2009 at 6:27pm

I see that the second paragraph giving the reason for the consultation mentions only the benefit enhanced functions utilising 084 numbers-it does not state that they can equally be accessed through 03 range.

Why is the Department of Health holding a public consultation on the use of 084 numbers in the NHS?

The Government is considering banning the use of 084 numbers in the NHS. This is because patients who use 084 numbers are paying more than the equivalent cost of calling a geographical number (i.e. a number beginning 01 or 02) to access services provided by the NHS. The Department of Health has issued guidance on several occasions which has made its position clear on this, and does not expect this situation to continue.
However, the Government recognises that the extra functions offered by numbers such as those from the 084 range can improve access to services for patients. We wish to find out how valuable people think the enhanced functions provided by 084 numbers are, and how they might otherwise be provided without patients having to pay more than the cost of dialling a normal geographical number.

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redant Junior Member Offline Posts: 86	Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta Reply #73 - Mar 6^th, 2009 at 6:35pm Sorry, I appear to have misread the final sentance of the reason for the public consultation. Please ignore my previous post.
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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Doctors' phone line use reviewed - DH consulta
Reply #74 - Mar 6^th, 2009 at 8:47pm

redant wrote on Mar 6^th, 2009 at 6:27pm:

I see that the second paragraph giving the reason for the consultation mentions only the benefit enhanced functions utilising 084 numbers-it does not state that they can equally be accessed through 03 range.

The references to use of 03 numbers, as the obvious means of offering the same functions as those provided by "numbers SUCH AS those from the 084 range", are not as strong as they might be, although they are there. If they were clearer it would be difficult to show why there was any need for a consultation!

The fact is that those keen to retain the benefits of revenue sharing have raised vague and spurious objections to use of 03, which the Department of Health needs help to dismiss. One hopes that those attending the industry event will be able to provide the necessary assistance, as well as demonstrating that the same or equivalent functions can be provided on geographic numbers.

Those attending the "other" event should be able to deal with the disgraceful BMA proposal that the principle of "free at the point of need" be abandoned in favour of NHS patients paying for access to NHS services according to the quality of service provided.

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« Last Edit: Mar 7^th, 2009 at 12:21am by SilentCallsVictim »

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