I agree with NGMGhost on this issue re the problem is not solved.

I think it is a very clever competitive move by BT.

However lots of organisations who shouldn't be profiting from these numbers will still be doing so. They will still be doing so at BTs customers expense as this will be a cost to BT that they have to recover from us their customers. Also if you are with another supplier, use a mobile, use a payphone or dial 0844 or 0871 you will still be paying.

As I have mentioned before I have absolutely no objection to premium rate numbers (I use 09 numbers) provided they are not used by public services and that if used by private commercial organisations they are properly regulated with clear accurate information eg don't call them local, clearly state the cost in print and when the call is answered, don't allow waiting times past a limited number of seconds, etc, etc. The 08XX numbers fail on all these counts.

Although the BT announcement is good news and will clearly stir up a can or worms and will highlight the issue (particularly with 0844 numbers - what will NEG do now?), we mustn't let the media think that the problem has now gone way - it hasn't.

Keith wrote on Jan 8^th, 2009 at 4:55pm:


I think we all agree; this does nothing whatsoever to change the nature of revenue sharing, it simply shuffles the source of the income and enables a few people to avoid having to hit the SayNo database.

It is vital to combat any suggestion that this is anything more than a benefit to some BT customers; apparently 1.4M are on Anytime, 4.3M on Evenings and the remaining 7.9M on Weekends. The intention is that the total number will increase with a bias towards Anytime.

It is the revenue sharing that is the point at issue, regardless of how the OCP juggles its income.


I am grateful to a friend of the campaign who has provided this recording of a piece from BBC Radio 5Live broadcast just before 1:00 today.

Graham wrote on Jan 8^th, 2009 at 5:44pm:

The termination rates BT pays to other telephone providers for calls to their 08xx and 09xx numbers are regulated. As a result of today's change they will have to be reviewed. BT is allowed to keep a tiny amount (I say tiny relative to the retail charge).

The rates paid out by BT when calling from one of its lines are the same for all terminating telcos except where the call ends with BT.

In the short term it will cost BT because the termination rates haven't been adjusted.

NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 8^th, 2009 at 1:50pm:
I think we can all agree that this will happen.

There is no such thing as "free"in this country!  BT will still have to pay termination rates to those CPs for any 084/087 numbers that do not belong to BT and as this is no longer recoverable at all from BT customers who have inclusive plans (myself included), it will eventually mean an increase in not only cost of chargable calls/inclusive plans but possibly things like calling features and line rental.

Sky did something similar when they said calls from their price plans to their customer services would be free but of course they also raised their 0845/0870 substantially to the same price (I believe) as Virgin.

Although I do get our calls from BT and will continue to stay with them until such time as they increase their plans, etc or another supplier becomes cheaper than BT and I still get freedom to route calls as I see fit (unlike what Sky do).

Any bets on a timeframe when BT will announce price increases on their plans?  I believe about 6months+ lol

While many of us are rightly suspicious of BT's motives it's a step in the right direction and gives good publicity to our cause. 0844 and 0871 are still a problem. However these also have legitimate uses, notably "dial through" PAYG services for low cost overseas calls.

That was going to be my next question, why haven't they


This is no reason for BT's offer not being extended to 0844 and 0871

Heinz wrote on Jan 9^th, 2009 at 10:57am:
This is probably the only reason.  BT have only done this for publicity and to gain extra customers but they know that a lot of companies on these numbers have already moved to 0844 and/or 0871/2 range so the losses from introducing this now is lot less than if they'd introduced it a year ago or something.

It would not be financially viable to include all 08 number ranges unless, like (expensive rip off) VirginMedia, offer tariffs with limited minutes but include number ranges like 084/087 but at a more hefty price compared to the usual unlimited (albeit geographically charged) plans.

When considering the limit of the inclusion to 0845 and 0870, the following points may be considered.

The cost of what was done is not as great as may be assumed.

BT has been running calls to 0845 numbers at what would appear to be a loss, when compared with the charges for normal calls, for some time. I have no figures, but I suspect that a very large proportion of the 0845 numbers in use are provided by BT. This would mean that whilst, as a group, it would suffer from providing discounted services with no compensation on these numbers, it would not be suffering the cost of paying out cash to subsidise someone else's services without compensation that would be suffered by other telcos that may follow its lead.

BT still expects Ofcom to go ahead with its long-announced prohibition on revenue sharing for 0870 numbers in the very near future. When I asked today if I could have an additional 0870 number so that I could make a packet out of BT by calling myself at the weekend, I was told that I could. I was however warned (before I declared the likely source of the calls), that BT was not recommending customers to use 0870 numbers because it expected the revenue sharing deal to have to end very soon.

The cost of adding 0844 would be much greater.


Also, BT will gain in other ways.

We must also remember that only 1.4 million of the 14 million customers said to be benefitting are currently on the Anytime plan. If others misunderstand the publicity around this announcement and now start making lots of daytime calls to 0845, 0870 and even 0844 numbers in the mistaken belief that they are free, then some of the cost involved in the move would be recovered.

There is also the benefit to be achieved from encouraging more to sign up for the Anytime plan. Some would do so in the mistaken belief that this would enable them to call their GP's 0844 number for free.

These benefits would not be enhanced significantly by adding 0844.