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SAYNOTO0870.COM › Main Forum › Geographical Numbers Chat › NTS Focus Group Minutes - September 11, 2008

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NTS Focus Group Minutes - September 11, 2008 (Read 3,696 times)

idb

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NTS Focus Group Minutes - September 11, 2008
Feb 5^th, 2009 at 2:15am

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/groups/nts_focus/notes/nts_110908

NTS Focus Group - 11th September 2008 - 2.00 pm Ofcom

Agenda item (1) - Introductions

Attendance:
Mike Barford Tiscali
James Barrington-Brown SkyCom
Warren Berdo SkyCom
Geoff Brighton Ofcom
Kath Embleton BT
Catherine Gerosa Invomo
Will Goodall Flextel
Sean Hartley BT
Clive Hillier Ofcom
Justin Hornby C&W (Chair)
Paul Lees Via-Vox
Jo Leese BT
Steve McGeary Via-Vox
Andy Martin IV Response
Andrew Monk CPW
Sandra Reid VirginMedia

By telephone
Will Goodall Flextel
Andrew Monk CPW
Frank Foley J2Global
Colin Scott Thus

Apologies:
Lesa Green KCom

Agenda (2): Update / progress report on the current 'live' NTS related consultations / investigations: (Ofcom/All)

Review of Regulation of Premium Rate Services
Ofcom hoped to now publish this in October. Justin asked if there was a chance of further slippage to which Clive indicated that he thought this was unlikely.

NCCN 500 investigation / NTS call termination market review
Ofcom announced that the finding of this case was that BT was deemed to have a dominant position in the market place but that their conduct did not amount to abuse. The period for any appeal to be lodged was almost up, but Ofcom had not heard from any of the parties involved.

General Condition 14 Enforcement Programme
The enforcement period is nearing completion and a number of informal action to do with advertising material has been taken. This largely involved the prominence of NTS price tariffs.

Agenda Item (3): Termination market review

Geoff indicated that the appeals period for NCCN500 was open until 2nd October. It would be after this point that Ofcom would consider if they were to proceed with a market review, but they were not planning an immediate review. Any work would be a standalone activity and would not form part of the narrowband review.

A number of operators sought reassurance from Ofcom that the Market Review was still to go ahead and expressed concern that the regulatory loop hole that allowed NCCN 500 still remained. It was felt that the findings from the previous review started before NCCN500 would still apply. Geoff indicated that no decision had yet been made and that it was a question of Ofcom resource and priorities.

Agenda Item (4): NTS Porting Differential

Geoff queried whether this was still an issue given the time that had elapsed since NCCN500. Justin pointed out that much of the delay had been caused by the time it had taken Ofcom to resolve the case and that the outcome of this had necessarily delayed looking at this issue. It was pointed out that the scope for a porting differential still existed and that the regulatory loop hole allowing this should be examined and closed off.

Ofcom asked that the issue be crystallised for them to understand. Justin asked attendees to contact him if the Focus Group wished to take this issue forward in any way.

AP June08_01: Focus group members to contact Chair if they wish to progress the porting differential issue in relation to NCCN500

...

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idb

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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - September 11, 2008
Reply #1 - Feb 5^th, 2009 at 2:16am

...

Agenda Item (5): 0870

Geoff indicated that the Competition Appeals Tribunal (CAT) decision in relation to the Mobile Termination Rate dispute has had a significant impact on the 0870 dispute. Ofcom’s lawyers are still looking at the way in which disputes are handled and the 0870 dispute can not be restarted until this work is done. As a result both the 0870 statement and the dispute resolution are being held back until this work is complete. An implementation date early in the New Year is expected. The implementation period is still likely to be a period of three months.

Colin asked how the 0870 termination rate dispute and 0870 statement were to be linked. Geoff indicated that once the work on the 0870 dispute recommenced it would work towards publishing a new draft and a new methodology for resolving the dispute before the end of the year. Once the draft determination was available it would allow publication of the 0870 statement and the commencement of the implementation period. It is believed that this is achievable before Christmas.

Will challenged whether Ofcom’s 0870 policy would achieve the levels of consumer protection it intended. He highlighted a lack of consumer protection in the measures since the withdrawal of pre-call announcements and highlighted that T-Mobile had already increased prices to consumers. Will continued to challenge Ofcom’s cost benefit analysis from the original consultation and maintained that this needed to be revisited.

Will also challenged whether pricing transparency itself was an adequate remedy and called for absolute clarity. The ability of mobile networks to charge for freephone 0800 numbers was also questioned. Geoff countered that Ofcom had received legal advice in relation to the pricing transparency requirements and were confident they were appropriate. In terms of the mobile charges he commented that it was a competitive market. Kath commented that the key indicator will be whether Ofcom actually take any action regarding GC14.2.

A number of companies indicated that compliance with 14.2 for the originating operator was difficult, particularly in order to achieve a usable format for End-Users. Clive commented that Ofcom had seen some improvements, but that it still wasn’t perfect. Will argued that it was too complicated a set of information without introducing price labelling.

Agenda Item (6): 0871

Clive explained that the 0871 statement was not ready for publication and that it was expected to be early October. A three month implementation period would apply. Andrew asked if this meant that the previous link between 0870 and 0871 in terms of timing had been broken. Clive agreed that the 0871 statement was likely to be in advance of 0870. There were still some issues to resolve with PhonepayPlus.

A customer update would be released in the next couple of weeks.

Justin asked if the funding model had been clarified. Clive agreed to check the current draft to confirm.

AP Sept 08_02: Ofcom to confirm if the PhonepayPlus funding modelled is addressed in Ofcom’s statement.

Agenda Item (7): AOB

BT was asked about revisions to Annex E. Kath responded that these were still in the negotiation phase.

Will rose an issue regarding the integrity of CLIs. He claimed that this was an increasing issue and that the CLI was increasingly becoming unreliable for CLI billing. Sean acknowledged this could be a problem where the international interconnect rates were lower than national.

AP Sept 08_03: CLI Integrity to be added to agenda of next Forum

Date of Next Meeting:
The meeting next meeting will take place on 23rd October 2008, commencing at 2:00pm, at Riverside House, London.

Summary of New and Outstanding Actions:
Aug06_09 Porting differential issue to be added to the agenda of the first NTSFG meeting of 2007
June08_01: Ofcom to consider whether redacted information can be made available.
Sept 08_01: Focus group members to contact Chair if they wish to progress the porting differential issue in relation to NCCN500
Sept 08_02: Ofcom to confirm if the PhonepayPlus funding modelled is addressed in Ofcom’s statement.
Sept 08_03: CLI Integrity to be added to agenda of next Forum

[end]

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NGMsGhost

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Re: NTS Focus Group Minutes - September 11, 2008
Reply #2 - Feb 5^th, 2009 at 10:36pm

idb wrote on Feb 5^th, 2009 at 2:16am:

Will challenged whether Ofcom’s 0870 policy would achieve the levels of consumer protection it intended. He highlighted a lack of consumer protection in the measures since the withdrawal of pre-call announcements and highlighted that T-Mobile had already increased prices to consumers.

I thought Will Goodall was the man single handedly responsible for ensuring that pre-call announcements did not go ahead by bringing up the pager and burglar alarms using 084/7 smoke screen at the last moment. Now he complains there is a lack of consumer protection in the withdrawal of the requirement for these announcements? Huh

Quote:

Will also challenged whether pricing transparency itself was an adequate remedy and called for absolute clarity. The ability of mobile networks to charge for freephone 0800 numbers was also questioned.

So what is Will Goodall's solution then? Is it that no price information at all should be published and that consumers should just pay up regardless then? Undecided

Quote:

A number of companies indicated that compliance with 14.2 for the originating operator was difficult, particularly in order to achieve a usable format for End-Users. Clive commented that Ofcom had seen some improvements, but that it still wasn’t perfect. Will argued that it was too complicated a set of information without introducing price labelling.

So why the hell did Will Goodall go out of his way to prevent the implementation of pre-call announcements then? Undecided

I see that Mr Goodall's well established culpability in personally preventing the introduction of pre-call announcments to 0870/0871 numbers was pointed out by this perceptive response to a previous Ofcom consultation.

See www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/0870calls/responses/ShersbyMrJ.pdf

« Last Edit: Feb 5^th, 2009 at 10:39pm by NGMsGhost »

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