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New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response (Read 32,412 times)
Dave
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New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Apr 23rd, 2009 at 12:25pm
 
SAYNOTO0870.COM campaign group response:

Campaigners de-cry Ofcom 0870 proposals as “too little too late”

Ofcom originally announced that the rip-of of 0870 telephone numbers would end on 1 February 2008. This was “delayed” and only now has a new announcement been made - http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2009/04/nr_20090423. The new inadequate regulations will come into effect on 1 August 2009 – 18 months late.

This is not adequate:

·        Ofcom is doing nothing whatsoever about the continuing rip-off on 0845 and 0844 numbers.
·        There is nothing being done about the misleading way in which call charges are advertised by those who use these numbers.
·        There is no guarantee that telephone companies will actually reduce their rates at all.

ENDS

For further comment and information, please contact - dave {at} saynoto0870 {dot} com



Ofcom news release:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2009/04/nr_20090423

<<
Reducing the cost of calls to 0870 numbers

Ofcom today set out new rules to provide clarity about the price of calls to 0870 numbers.

These new rules will encourage communications providers:

To stop charging higher prices for calls to 0870 numbers from fixed lines and mobiles than calls to “geographic rate” numbers (01, 02 or 03 numbers); and
To include 0870 calls in call packages on the same basis as geographic calls.
These measures may significantly reduce the cost of calling 0870 numbers whilst increasing consumers’ awareness about the costs of calling them.

Clear advice on call costs
Under these new rules, communications providers that want to continue charging for 0870 calls at rates above those for geographic numbers will now be bound by strict rules about how prices are publicised on websites and in promotional material at point of sale.

Communications providers will be responsible for making sure their customers know how much they will be charged for calling an 0870 number and they will not be allowed to advertise 0870 numbers as “national rate” unless they are charging at geographic rates. If they do not comply with these rules, they could be subject to enforcement action including possible fines.

0870 numbers are used by many businesses and organisations to provide a wide range of information and advice including many customer service lines. Currently 0870 calls are priced at levels that enable businesses and organisations to share the revenue generated by per-minute call charges. Ofcom’s new rules should effectively end revenue sharing on 0870 numbers.

Ofcom welcomes steps that some fixed line companies have already taken to include calls to 0870 numbers in call packages and reduce their prices.

The new regulations will come into effect on 1 August 2009.

The statement on 0870 numbers can be found at:

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/0870calls/0870statement/

Ends.

NOTES FOR EDITORS

1. Advice for consumers on 08 numbers can be found at: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consumeradvice/landline/costofcalls/08faq/
>>
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« Last Edit: Apr 23rd, 2009 at 1:06pm by Dave »  
 
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derrick
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New date for revenue share stop on 0870?
Reply #1 - May 6th, 2009 at 12:57pm
 
Is this finally the date that revenue share will stop on 0870?
http://www.voipfoneuserforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3609
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ew.walgrove
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Ofcom demands clearer pricing for 0870 numbers &nb
Reply #2 - May 11th, 2009 at 11:25pm
 
Ofcom has set out new rules demanding clearer information for customers on how much it will cost them to call 0870 numbers, but has stopped short of requiring a price cut.

Under the new rules, phone networks will be made responsible for ensuring that customers know how much they will be charged for calling an 0870 number. They will not be allowed to describe the numbers as 'national rate' unless the price is in line with that for calling a 01, 02 or 03 number.

The new rules, which come into effect in August 2009, follow a consultation by Ofcom, which found that consumers were often confused over the cost of calling 0870 numbers. Companies that do not comply with the new rules could be subject to fines.

According to research by price comparison website Moneysupermarket two thirds of people who call 08 numbers from a mobile phone have no idea how much they are being charged.

Ofcom said it and payphoneplus, the organisation that regulates phone-paid services in the UK, had received " many complaints" from people calling these numbers in the past few years but was unable to provide an exact figure.

"We’ve put these rules in place following a consultation last year, which found customers are often confused about how much they are charged by their mobile and land line company for calling these numbers. We hope these new rules will help protect consumers and clear up confusion," said a representative.

To view the new rules: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/0870calls/0870statement/0870statement.pd...
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2009 at 10:00am
 
Ofcom has now completed resolution of the dispute about the termination charges paid on 0870 calls by BT. As with the previous attempt at resolution, this is subject to referral to the Competition Appeal Tribunal.

Acceptance of the proposed rates by BT and by the TCPs will be necessary for BT to adjust its charges (for non-inclusive calls) on 1 August 2009. Assuming that such a change is announced, Ofcom will be hoping that all other providers will make similar changes. We wait to see whether the hoped-for reduction to geographic rates occurs.

Given the name of this forum it may be expected that this issue will be followed in some detail, although many members are now more focussed in campaigning on issues relating to 0845 and 0844.


The Ofcom Summary Determination provides a useful and readable history of the dispute and Ofcom's attempts at resolution.

Whilst concern about the time this has taken (noting that we may not yet be at the end) raises questions about Ofcom's competence, it also bears on the extent of Ofcom's powers and the political considerations that flow from this.
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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #4 - Jul 21st, 2009 at 3:07am
 


Have you all seen this?  http://www.flextel.com/press/news.html


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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #5 - Jul 21st, 2009 at 4:47am
 
catj wrote on Jul 21st, 2009 at 3:07am:
Have you all seen this?  http://www.flextel.com/press/news.html



Unless somone can see the catch, this looks like Flextel trying to hang on to 0870 business from those who do not want to change their number, despite the loss of revenue share from 1 August.

Ofcom will be (or rather, should be) on the lookout for any breach of its regulations (i.e. covert revenue sharing) once the regulations come into effect. It also has a duty to further the interest of Flextel customers, so if anyone can see any problems for 0870 users under this new arrangement, then they should be invited to complain to Ofcom.

BT is not yet charging for 0870 calls at the same rate as 01/02 calls. We await a stream of announcements about how call charges will be changed (or not).
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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #6 - Jul 21st, 2009 at 4:19pm
 
catj wrote on Jul 21st, 2009 at 3:07am:
Have you all seen this?  http://www.flextel.com/press/news.html

Looks all in order to me. Incoming calls are chargeable, as we would expect, and they're allowing revenue from other 08 number(s) to be offset against these charges.
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« Last Edit: Jul 21st, 2009 at 4:20pm by Dave »  
 
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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #7 - Aug 9th, 2009 at 1:14pm
 
Quote :

"This is not adequate:

·        Ofcom is doing nothing whatsoever about the continuing rip-off on 0845 and 0844 numbers. "

And yet I see on this site is supported by companies selling such numbers !

Aren't you being a tad hypocritical ?
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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #8 - Aug 9th, 2009 at 8:25pm
 
gadfly wrote on Aug 9th, 2009 at 1:14pm:
And yet I see on this site is supported by companies selling such numbers !  Aren't you being a tad hypocritical ?


Please see the FAQ.  The ads are provided automatically by Google,and they select the adverts based on the site content, so consequently you tend to see a larger proportion of adverts for NGN providers.  There is no direct relationship between any advertiser and this site.
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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #9 - Aug 9th, 2009 at 8:59pm
 
A "re-branding" exercise is currently underway - see this thread. The valid point about apparent hypocrisy has been raised many times and must be one of the issues under consideration by the re-branding team. I am sure that comments about the impoortance (if any) of addressing the present situation and suggestions of alternative means of funding would be appreciated.
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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #10 - Aug 9th, 2009 at 10:24pm
 
irrelevant wrote on Aug 9th, 2009 at 8:25pm:
gadfly wrote on Aug 9th, 2009 at 1:14pm:
And yet I see on this site is supported by companies selling such numbers !  Aren't you being a tad hypocritical ?


Please see the FAQ.  The ads are provided automatically by Google,and they select the adverts based on the site content, so consequently you tend to see a larger proportion of adverts for NGN providers.  There is no direct relationship between any advertiser and this site.

Whilst the highlighted statement is true, that is not the point at issue. This is akin to a company saying that it does not receive any revenue directly from a 0844 or 0845 revenue sharing number. Of course it is still benefiting by allowing its telephone provider to take all the revenue, thereby reducing service costs levied directly on it.

With the advertising, the point is that it is promoting the services that the website opposes and that, as I understand it, clicks on those ads generate revenue for the site.
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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #11 - Aug 10th, 2009 at 8:40am
 
If you succeed in ending revenue-sharing for 0844 and 0845 numbers all you will do is destroy some useful services which otherwise would not be provided - for example, dial-up internet, fax to email.

Rather than Ofcom introducing new restrictions on revenue-sharing numbers, surely it should be the Health Service, FSA etc. to regulate the activities of doctors, banks etc.
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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #12 - Aug 10th, 2009 at 8:53am
 
gadfly wrote on Aug 10th, 2009 at 8:40am:
If you succeed in ending revenue-sharing for 0844 and 0845 numbers all you will do is destroy some useful services which otherwise would not be provided - for example, dial-up internet, fax to email.

The first principle must be clarity of, not only charging, but a widespread understanding that certain numbers provide benefit to call recipients. It is generally accepted that services on the 09 prefix are of this nature.

However, those on 084x and 087x were previously designated as being "local rate" as "national rate" with no explanation that they were revenue sharing numbers.

I think that it's far more likely that revenue sharing will cease on 0845, as it has on 0870 and that 0844 will stay as it is.

The services you identify really should be on the 09 range. The charges would be the same and hence they would exist as they do now, just that people would be clear that they belong to a group of services that derive payment directly from telephone call charges.

gadfly wrote on Aug 10th, 2009 at 8:40am:
Rather than Ofcom introducing new restrictions on revenue-sharing numbers, surely it should be the Health Service, FSA etc. to regulate the activities of doctors, banks etc.

As a principal member of the campaign, I have never considered that revenue sharing numbers should be banned as such. They should operate on number prefixes where everyone is clear what they are from day one.
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« Last Edit: Aug 10th, 2009 at 8:57am by Dave »  
 
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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #13 - Aug 10th, 2009 at 9:41am
 
gadfly wrote on Aug 10th, 2009 at 8:40am:
If you succeed in ending revenue-sharing for 0844 and 0845 numbers all you will do is destroy some useful services which otherwise would not be provided - for example, dial-up internet, fax to email.

Rather than Ofcom introducing new restrictions on revenue-sharing numbers, surely it should be the Health Service, FSA etc. to regulate the activities of doctors, banks etc.

This comment on the assumed position of the SayNoTo0870 brand is helpful and interesting.

Many of those associated with the brand focus their campaigning efforts on the Department of Health etc. to address what they see as specific cases of misuse of revenue sharing numbers. Others reject this approach as they see the whole principle as fundamentally wrong, certainly on 084 numbers, and in some cases on 087 and 09 as well (070 is a separate case that is almost universally seen as a disaster area).

Some of us hope that the current necessary re-branding excercise will enable greater clarity, which may be simply confirmation of the stated assumption.

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Re: New 0870 regulations: SAYNOTO0870.COM response
Reply #14 - Aug 11th, 2009 at 5:09pm
 
gadfly wrote on Aug 10th, 2009 at 8:40am:
If you succeed in ending revenue-sharing for 0844 and 0845 numbers all you will do is destroy some useful services which otherwise would not be provided - for example, dial-up internet, fax to email


No the services would undoubtedly continue and either be funded by the person benefiting from them paying a fee for each minute's internet use or each fax received or by the services switching to one of the PhonePayPlus controlled number ranges such as the deliberately misleading 0871 range or the more honestly extra cost advertising lower cost 09 number ranges.

Your argument that they would not continue is the same hymn sheet that your crowd have been singing from ever since these ripoff hidden extra charge 084/7 numbers were set up and tried to hoodwink people that they were only ordnarily priced "local rate" and "national rate" call.

It is also quite clearly a deliberate conspiracy by the telecoms industry since the same trick has been tried on an EU wide basis in several other countries.
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