SAYNOTO0870.COM - Is it working

flocker

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Is it working
May 20^th, 2009 at 10:39am

Hi, having used sayno for a number of years, I am finding that quite a number of time of late, that I'm having to call the 084 or 0870 number. This is no criticism of sayno, as its up us all to update the database, which I have on a numer of occasions when I've found an alternative.

However, with many people now taking up new deals thats coming out with call providers where calls are free during the day etc, the 'low call' rate that is being used as the reason for introducing the 084 number is being negated. OFCOM must know this too.

Do I see a time when we will all have an 084 number and start making on the calls to us.

I applaude the idea of introducing a low call rate as its cheaper than a standard tarriff, but there should be discrimination as to where the call originates and as to if the low call rate is cheaper than your carriers service. I cant see it being too difficult in these days of technology. Of course under the 'low call' banner, we have the 'revenue sharing' which removes all notion of introducing such discrimination.

Having only just joined the forum, are any inroads being made to OFCOM to basically stop thes pretences of 084 numbers and the black holes of 0870 numbers.

On anoher point, have you noticed how many UK companies are becomng faceless, with the inabiliy for you to contact them either by phone or email, except via a website questionair. Those same companies are totaly accessible at their european sites with email addrsses and phone numbers. There is a culture growing in this respect in the UK.

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Dave

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Re: Is it working
Reply #1 - May 20^th, 2009 at 3:38pm

flocker wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 10:39am:

Hi, having used sayno for a number of years, I am finding that quite a number of time of late, that I'm having to call the 084 or 0870 number. This is no criticism of sayno, as its up us all to update the database, which I have on a numer of occasions when I've found an alternative.

How have you been notifying us?

flocker wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 10:39am:

However, with many people now taking up new deals thats coming out with call providers where calls are free during the day etc, the 'low call' rate that is being used as the reason for introducing the 084 number is being negated. OFCOM must know this too.

Do I see a time when we will all have an 084 number and start making on the calls to us.

I applaude the idea of introducing a low call rate as its cheaper than a standard tarriff, but there should be discrimination as to where the call originates and as to if the low call rate is cheaper than your carriers service. I cant see it being too difficult in these days of technology. Of course under the 'low call' banner, we have the 'revenue sharing' which removes all notion of introducing such discrimination.

No 084 and 087 is or has ever been "low rate" (per se).

0845 was the same as local rate back in the days where there was only BT to make calls with, but it was obvious that geographical call charges would fall and therefore a gap would open up.

All users of 084 and 087 numbers derive a subsidy, a premium paid by the caller, in the same way that they do on 09 premium rate numbers, all be it to a lesser degree. Unless a call carrier has a sideline in farming money trees, then they will have to pass this on in some way shape or form.

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electrichero

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Re: Is it working
Reply #2 - May 20^th, 2009 at 4:24pm

Hi Dave, thanks for the reply.

Yes I did notify the 'database' (Farnells number for one)

Re 084 (I didnt specify the 087 in my low call sentence) I was under the impression that some 084 numbers were low call in that they were lower than the BT normal equivalent.

In general terms the organizations such as the New forest topic, inform the customers that its a low rate number, so it must be lower than what must be considered normal!

What prompted my post, was that the number of 084 numbers seem to be increasing or should I say organizations using them and I wonder what OFCOM really are doing in the best interest of the consumer

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Dave

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Re: Is it working
Reply #3 - May 22^nd, 2009 at 3:37pm

electrichero wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 4:24pm:

Yes I did notify the 'database' (Farnells number for one)

Thanks. I will look at those entries.

Postings on the forum about changes, updates and verifications to the database will receive a generally quick response and I suggest that this is what members should do.

electrichero wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 4:24pm:

Re 084 (I didnt specify the 087 in my low call sentence) I was under the impression that some 084 numbers were low call in that they were lower than the BT normal equivalent.

In general terms the organizations such as the New forest topic, inform the customers that its a low rate number, so it must be lower than what must be considered normal!

This is a misleading piece of marketing, coined by those telephone providers that operate these numbers. It is they who benefit most from use of these numbers.

electrichero wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 4:24pm:

What prompted my post, was that the number of 084 numbers seem to be increasing or should I say organizations using them and I wonder what OFCOM really are doing in the best interest of the consumer

More and more companies are switching from 0845 and 0870 to 0844 and 0871. 0871 numbers will be classed as a "premium rate services" from 1 August.

With the premium "revenue share" being discontinued on 0870 numbers from the same date, and with the premium on 0845 being the lowest of all 084 and 087 numbers, it's not surprising that organisations are choosing to move to 0844 numbers which are not officially classed as a "premium rate services" and where the premium attached is about three quarters of that of with 0870 numbers.

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rapidremap

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Re: Is it working
Reply #4 - Jun 1^st, 2009 at 6:11pm

Where it is at all possible I will not use the services of a company that do not supply a normal geographical number (this it not always possible) is there a section on this forum or somewhere else, where we can name a company that has lost our business because it does not have a geographical number?

The only way these companies are going to stop using NGN is if they start losing business and are notified that they are losing business (it is the only thing they care about) for every penny they make in NGN revenue they need to know how much they are losing from people who strongly object to being ripped off.

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Is it working
Reply #5 - Jun 1^st, 2009 at 7:12pm

rapidremap wrote on Jun 1^st, 2009 at 6:11pm:

Where it is at all possible I will not use the services of a company that do not supply a normal geographical number (this it not always possible) is there a section on this forum or somewhere else, where we can name a company that has lost our business because it does not have a geographical number?

The only way these companies are going to stop using NGN is if they start losing business and are notified that they are losing business (it is the only thing they care about) for every penny they make in NGN revenue they need to know how much they are losing from people who strongly object to being ripped off.

Whilst this is as sensible a way of choosing who to do business with as applying any other point of principle, there are perhaps two points worth making. Firstly, there are some companies with numbers in the saynoto0870 database that do not advertise these numbers as being supplied. Secondly there are some who use 03 numbers, thereby bearing all the addition costs of a NGN themselves. There are many campaigners who would be unhappy for these companies to be advised that they are losing business as a result of this decision.

I have always been keen to know if there is any realistic prospect of a boycott on companies that use NGN's being effective in changing their policy. There are modest examples of pressure on public service providers being seen to be effective - a boycott would be unlikely to be effective in these cases.

I do not disagree with the point of principle to determine individual action, my question is about the scale of a mass boycott and the amount of organisation that would be required to achieve a result.

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rapidremap

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Re: Is it working
Reply #6 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 7:52am

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jun 1^st, 2009 at 7:12pm:

Whilst this is as sensible a way of choosing who to do business with as applying any other point of principle, there are perhaps two points worth making. Firstly, there are some companies with numbers in the saynoto0870 database that do not advertise these numbers as being supplied. Secondly there are some who use 03 numbers, thereby bearing all the addition costs of a NGN themselves. There are many campaigners who would be unhappy for these companies to be advised that they are losing business as a result of this decision.

I have always been keen to know if there is any realistic prospect of a boycott on companies that use NGN's being effective in changing their policy. There are modest examples of pressure on public service providers being seen to be effective - a boycott would be unlikely to be effective in these cases.

I do not disagree with the point of principle to determine individual action, my question is about the scale of a mass boycott and the amount of organisation that would be required to achieve a result.

There is no easy answer I guess, but just as an idea I wonder if anyone has drafted a standard letter that other campaigners could send off to companies they currently deal with confirming that they would seek the services of a company that does provide alternative numbers such as geographical and or the 03 numbers you mention.

Most of my calls are made by mobile (due to the nature of my business) and my bundled minutes do not include any non geographical numbers so I end up paying well over the odds when I am forced to call an NGN (after I have serached saynoto0870 of course)

Maybe a standard letter format that could be copied and pasted for individuals to register the objections with companies they find that do not offer an alternative to NGN.

~ Edited by Dave: Quote box added

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« Last Edit: Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 7:36pm by Dave »

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loddon

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Re: Is it working
Reply #7 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 12:05pm

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jun 1^st, 2009 at 7:12pm:

I have always been keen to know if there is any realistic prospect of a boycott on companies that use NGN's being effective in changing their policy. There are modest examples of pressure on public service providers being seen to be effective - a boycott would be unlikely to be effective in these cases.

I do not disagree with the point of principle to determine individual action, my question is about the scale of a mass boycott and the amount of organisation that would be required to achieve a result.

A mass boycott would undoubtedly be very difficult to achieve and frankly I think the idea is unrealistic. A mass boycott is also unnecessary because we can be quite effective as individuals. I never miss the opprtunity to tell companies that I disapprove of their use of "rip-off" numbers. Whenever "customer service" ask me if they can help in any other way, a stock question that companies obviously train their staff to always ask at the end of every contact with a customer, I respond politely with a request that they abandon their numbers and return to geographic numbers.

I cite Alan Boswell Group, an insurance broker, as an example. When I was looking at placing some business with them about 3 years ago, they were in the middle of introducing 0870 numbers. I complained about this politely but firmly and said it would put me off doing business with them. I ended up having several conversations about this with senior people in the company. I noticed that subsequently they began putting their geographic numbers into letters to me although 0870 was on their letter head. Checking their website today http://www.alanboswell.com/ I notice that they use only geographic numbers and there is not a trace of their former 0870s! Could they be a candidate for our Hall of Fame?

I hesitate to claim credit for this reversal in policy because I have no idea what other customers may have been saying to Alan Boswell Group at the time, but I don't think it required a mass boycott. I think it is encouraging to think that a few people pointing out the error of their ways in a constructive way may well have influenced or persuaded them. So I propose that our approach should be to always tell companies whenever we get the chance that their use of "rip-off" 084/087 numbers is inadvisable and could be bad for business. Also to give them examples of other businesses and organisations that have moved away from 084/087 from our Hall of Fame.

I notice that Alan Boswell Group still appears on our database with an 0870 number and their geographic 01603 number is listed. Perhaps this listing is no longer needed?

P.S. I remain a satisfied customer of the Alan Boswell Group.

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« Last Edit: Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 7:37pm by Dave »

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Is it working Reply #8 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 7:43pm loddon wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 12:05pm: … Could they be a candidate for our Hall of Fame? I've added it to the Hall of Fame.
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