Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
SAYNOTO0870.COM

<---- Back to main website

 
Home Help Search Login Register

Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
blocking caller id (Read 30,418 times)
sherbert
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,011
Gender: male
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #15 - Jun 14th, 2009 at 2:55pm
 
Thanks Dave & Hobbie Smiley
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
SilentCallsVictim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline


aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #16 - Jun 14th, 2009 at 10:12pm
 
May I draw attention to the Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations 2003.

Regulation #10 enables the regulatory enforcement of the right to privacy in respect of one's own provider.
Regulation #13 enables that provider to ensure that it is respected by others, so that it may comply with regulation #10.

Regulation #14 covers the ability to provide anonymous location information.

Regulation #16 covers calls to emergency services.

To my mind, any provider who has not ensured compliance with blocking of caller id by all those to whom calls are connected is failing to comply with regulation 10.


Comments

Fans of the European Union may be interested to note that these regulations are the UK implementation of Articles 8 and 9 of the Directive on Privacy and Electronic Communications - 2002/58/EC passed by the European Parliament and the Council on 12 July 2002.

The legally minded may wish to note that Ofcom's General Condition 16 requires that provision of Calling Line Identification Facilities is made "in accordance with the requirements of Relevant Data Protection Legislation." (The latest version of the General Conditions is found here)
An alleged breach could therefore be investigated by Ofcom, or by the ICO, which enforces the PECR. As the regulation applies to telcos, this would fall most naturally to Ofcom.

(As an aside from the matter under discussion, if one reads regulation 15 (3) in passing, it may be of interest to note that until November 2003 Oftel / Ofcom was not regarded as a "person with a legitimate interest" by BT. That was changed, so that the necessary evidence to start taking action against Silent Callers could be supplied to Ofcom.)
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Hobbie
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 12
Northumberland
Gender: male
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #17 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 7:50am
 
SCV,

Can you cite the actual wording for the regulation that covers the use of Caller ID. Such as what part actually states that CLI should not be delivered, If I remember correctly it states "best efforts" should be made to ensure private CLI is not released.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
SilentCallsVictim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline


aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #18 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 9:08am
 
Hobbie wrote on Jun 15th, 2009 at 7:50am:
SCV,

Can you cite the actual wording for the regulation that covers the use of Caller ID. Such as what part actually states that CLI should not be delivered, If I remember correctly it states "best efforts" should be made to ensure private CLI is not released.


Regulation #10 reads as follows:

Quote:
The provider of a public electronic communications service shall provide users originating a call by means of that service with a simple means to prevent presentation of the identity of the calling line on the connected line as respects that call.


That seems clear enough to me.

To provide such a "means" the provider must be confident that the provider of the "connected line" will respect whatever method is used to fulfil this requirement. This is aided by regulation #13:

Quote:
For the purposes of regulations 10 and 11, a communications provider shall comply with any reasonable requests made by the provider of the public electronic communications service by means of which facilities for calling or connected line identification are provided.


The wording is somewhat tortuous because it is drafted so that it works in both directions, as the right not to know the identity of a caller (regulation 11) is seen as being as important. (I can only think of worrying about one's partner dialling 1471 to see who has been calling you as an example of where this could be useful.)
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Tanllan
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 797
Gender: male
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #19 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 12:42pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jun 15th, 2009 at 9:08am:
The wording is somewhat tortuous because it is drafted so that it works in both directions, as the right not to know the identity of a caller (regulation 11) is seen as being as important. (I can only think of worrying about one's partner dialling 1471 to see who has been calling you as an example of where this could be useful.)

I also used this option (requirement) on helplines where we needed to prove that incoming calls were anonymous and could not be identified. Your observation about partners led to the setting up of 1470 to anonymise (ugh) the last incoming call.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
SilentCallsVictim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline


aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #20 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 12:56pm
 
Tanllan wrote on Jun 15th, 2009 at 12:42pm:
Your observation about partners led to the setting up of 1470 to anonymise (ugh) the last incoming call.

I am pleased to say that I was unaware of 1470 as I have never needed to worry about it. (One suspects that this has been deemed necessary in order to comply with regulation 11 on a "per call" basis, although that is not specifically demanded). I do worry about making verbs out of nouns, making them out of adjectives is even more disturbing.

Perhaps Tanlan should be thanked for helping the telcos in their compliance with regulation 12.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2009 at 1:03pm by SilentCallsVictim »  
WWW  
IP Logged
 
mikeinnc
Full Member
***
Offline


Ofcom - quis custodiet
ipsos custodes?

Posts: 225
Perth Western Australia
Gender: male
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #21 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 5:09am
 
I subscribe to Skype Out and can make anonymous calls with impunity! I am pretty certain that since there is no 'number' associated with what is a 'outwards calling system' only, there cannot be a valid caller ID transmitted? I've tried calling myself on other phones and it always shows 'number unknown' or something like 123456789. I always use Skype when I want to withhold my number.

I also record all such calls so I have a record of what is said and by whom - but that's another issue.......! Wink
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
sherbert
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,011
Gender: male
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #22 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 7:09am
 
mikeinnc wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 5:09am:
I also record all such calls so I have a record of what is said and by whom - but that's another issue.......! Wink


Am I right in saying, that if you record a telephone call it is illeagal to do so with out telling the person on the other end first? Undecided
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
derrick
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1,124
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #23 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:15am
 
sherbert wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 7:09am:
mikeinnc wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 5:09am:
I also record all such calls so I have a record of what is said and by whom - but that's another issue.......! Wink


Am I right in saying, that if you record a telephone call it is illeagal to do so with out telling the person on the other end first? Undecided



Not if it is only for your own benefit.

http://www.callcorder.com/phone-recording-law-uk.htm
The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use. Recording or monitoring are only prohibited where some of the contents of the communication - which can be a phone conversation or an e-mail - are made available to a third party, i.e. someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication.

According to Oftel, you do not have to let people know that you intend to record their telephone conversations, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording.

Also see; - http://www.retellrecorders.co.uk/legal/home.htm
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:21am by derrick »  
 
IP Logged
 
sherbert
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,011
Gender: male
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #24 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:21am
 
derrick wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:15am:
/



Not if it is only for your own benefit.


But I believe you can only use the transcript in a court of law if you have  said that the call is being recorded. I guess this is why it is always stated on the recording you get when you get (and if!!) you get through to an institiution
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:22am by sherbert »  
 
IP Logged
 
sherbert
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,011
Gender: male
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #25 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:24am
 
We crossed post there Derrick.....thanks for the info. Smiley
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
derrick
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1,124
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #26 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:25am
 
sherbert wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:21am:
derrick wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:15am:
/



Not if it is only for your own benefit.


But I believe you can only use the transcript in a court of law if you have  said that the call is being recorded. I guess this is why it is always stated on the recording you get when you get (and if!!) you get through to an institiution



Did you see my second link above? ; - http://www.retellrecorders.co.uk/legal/home.htm

Do businesses have to tell me if they are going to record or monitor my phone calls or e-mails?

No. as long as the recording or monitoring is done for one of the above purposes the only obligation on businesses is to inform their own employees. If businesses want to record for any other purpose, such as market research, they will have to obtain your consent.

Can I record telephone conversations on my home phone?

Yes. The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use. Recording or monitoring are only prohibited where some of the contents of the communication - which can be a phone conversation or an e-mail - are made available to a third party, ie someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication. For further information see the Home Office website where RIPA is posted.

Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?

No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
sherbert
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,011
Gender: male
Re: blocking caller id
Reply #27 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:43am
 
derrick wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:25am:
Did you see my second link above? ;
.


Yes I did thanks, as I said in my reply #25 we 'crossed post'

Thanks again for all that. Smiley
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:44am by sherbert »  
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: CJT-80, bbb_uk, DaveM, Dave, Forum Admin)

Website and Content © 1999-2024 SAYNOTO0870.COM. All Rights Reserved. (DE)
Written permission is required to duplicate any of the content within this site.

WARNING: This is an open forum, posts are NOT endorsed by SAYNOTO0870.COM,
please exercise due caution when acting on any info from here.


SAYNOTO0870.COM » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.


Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge