unknowndomain wrote on Jul 1^st, 2009 at 12:04am:

Others have done the same, with similar results. The question to be addressed is not about whether an obviously better name can be found (in the present situation) but to consider, or perhaps wait and see, how the present name will appear after the changes that will start to occur in August.

If there arises a public perception that "the 0870 problem" has been solved (which already exists to some degree following the BT move in January) then a re-launch under the present name, which ties all revenue sharing to one code, could be very difficult. If such a perception were to emerge then a relaunch with a new name would help to draw attention to the fact that the revenue sharing rip-off continues regardless.

Do not be surprised to find the phrase "say no to 0870" used in some form in headlines around the beginning of August when the tariff changes are announced. This will convey the message that customers of some telcos have no need to use the site.

With all due respect to the fine minds that have been heavily and intensively engaged on the problem of thinking of an alternative name, I urge all those with an appreciation of the commercial and marketing aspects of this issue to give some consideration to what may be required in the months to come.

Noting that BT will be removing the surcharge on 0870 calls for all of its customers (and others may well do the same), one may wish to consider how a relaunch of "saynoto0870" would appear in the context of items such as the January press release from BT - BT £24M giveaway helps 14m customers say no to 0870.

catj wrote on Jul 1^st, 2009 at 2:20am:

Never say "never". This issue is being addressed.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 1^st, 2009 at 12:01am:

I think that, on balance, the name should stay as it is at the moment. The reputation of 0870 numbers have been tarnished by Saynoto0870 and we can see this in the fact that these numbers are now not being adopted in the way they once were.

0844 and 0845 are now the new 0870. Some have chosen to go with 0871.

The fact that the site is called "Saynoto0870" does not mean that people don't associate it with alternatives for other rip-off numbers beginning 0844, 0845 and 0871. For this reason, I feel that the name is widely recognised as being against all these numbers.


catj wrote on Jul 1^st, 2009 at 2:20am:

Your posting is still there and is on the first page of this thread.

Where packages offer free calls to local geographical numbers - which to my knowledge, is currently, only for some TalkTalk customers and those in Hull and Beverley whose incumbent provider is KC - users of this site will have to decide whether a given alternative is a within the scope of being local anyway.

So for any one individual, many 01/02 alternative numbers will not be local anyway.


It's worth emphasising that local and national calls cost the same with the vast majority of telephone tariffs anyway, and hence 03 numbers do. Those that have local calls charged at lower rates than national geographical and 03 calls are in the minority.

An issue of some concern is the way that the forum is increasingly attracting postings from those with a commercial interest in the telecoms business. Many of them are allying themselves with the objectives of the site.

We are obviously happy to entertain all opinions and we cannot avoid discussing the merits and demerits of particular commercial offerings in their proper place. I am however unhappy when a particular business seeks to ally itself with the cause that the site promotes and thereby seek to promote itself.

As this thread is on the topic of branding, I feel that is is fair to question whether, as forum members with no commercial axe to grind, we are content for the SayNoTo0870 brand to become associated with commercial brands.

Furthermore on the topic of branding, there may be concern that SayNoTo0870 is happy for callers to misuse geographic numbers published for one clearly defined purpose as alternative to non-geographic numbers published for a different defined purpose. It has been reported that a service on a geographic number had to be withdrawn because of the level of abuse, some of which may have arisen from its publication as an alternative in the SayNo database. One could argue that we are fighting a war and therefore all is fair. Others would suggest that we are seeking to persuade, and improper action may reduce the chances of our reasonable arguments being granted a hearing.

I make these points having somewhat reluctantly, and perhaps improperly, risen to a challenge to defend SayNoTo0870 in the media recently. If the "brand" should become further tainted, this is something that I would not be prepared to do.

Thank you Barbara. This is exactly the type of debate that I hoped to stimulate. I hope you do understand the point I was making but disagree with the view that I express. I see use of a number declared as being for use by overseas callers for a domestic call to HMRC as misuse, however I also see use of revenue sharing numbers to save the taxpayer a penny or two at the expense of service users as misuse. I hope that others will contribute to a discussion that will help to establish where members stand on this point, so that I know clearly how to behave if called upon to represent their views in future.

Dave wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 4:21am:
In relation to the particular example of misuse being addressed here, I understand that some callers have been asked.

The point I raised was however only about the respective intentions, not about issues of enforcement relating to a particular example. The question of misuse is answered by whether the caller believes that they satisfy the specified criteria, not whether they think that a failure to meet the criteria could perhaps not be detected.

This, admittedly light-hearted, comment from a moderator does serve to imply that SayNoTo0870 is content for callers to misuse numbers if they can perhaps hope to be able to get away with it.

It is not for me to dictate what is right and wrong for the site, or what are legitimate campaign tactics. We all have different and perfectly valid views. I simply believe that we should all know where we stand on these issues, and establish what approach "the SayNoTo0870 brand" represents, in very general terms.

Thank you Barbara, these are the issues that I wanted us to bring out. You state the points on which we disagree very clearly.

Barbara wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 8:39am:

I hope that other members will state their positions here with equal clarity, so that some idea of the position of the SayNoTo0870 brand can be established.