SAYNOTO0870.COM - Bedford/Hitchin/St Albans County Court

joli

Newbie

Offline

Posts: 21

Re: Bedford/Hitchin/St Albans County Court
Reply #15 - Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 1:47pm

Dave wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 12:28pm:

I think that the 0844 number will just direct to one of the 01462 numbers. Thus, an internal transfer to the helpdesk will be to another extension.

However, since the Hitchin helpdesk are also serving Bedford and St Albans thransfer to and from those must go through another switchboard altogether.

Quote:

I appreciate that in a court they may well be naturally guarded in what they say to unknown callers, but if someone was asked and they told you what extension number they are putting you through to, then that will probably help very much in working out its direct dialling in (DDI) number (the respective 01462 number).

You would also be well advised to withhold your number when doing this so it doesn't appear on the displays of different extensions, in particular, so they don't ignore you because you are that nuisance caller ringing every phone!

Thanks for the tip. I do always withhold my number but have some doubts as to whether their switchboard would honour the withhold. In the same way as your manual withhold is ignored when calling police and related security services, I wonder if courts come under the same regime?

Back to top

IP Logged

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: Bedford/Hitchin/St Albans County Court
Reply #16 - Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 3:27pm

joli wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 1:47pm:

Dave wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2010 at 12:28pm:

I think that the 0844 number will just direct to one of the 01462 numbers. Thus, an internal transfer to the helpdesk will be to another extension.

However, since the Hitchin helpdesk are also serving Bedford and St Albans thransfer to and from those must go through another switchboard altogether.

I was referring the internal transfer to the helpdesk, such as that attempted by the bailiffs office.

I think that it is quite likely that they can dial from one court to another using internal extension numbers, and hence transfer calls (whether from inside or outside) to another extension number at another site. But we know that the helpdesk which we are looking for the number for is at Hitchin County Court, so there's no point in dialling the local numbers for the others.

Back to top

IP Logged

joli

Newbie

Offline

Posts: 21

Re: Bedford County Court
Reply #17 - Mar 30^th, 2010 at 10:56am

joli wrote on Mar 15^th, 2010 at 4:04pm:

Dave wrote on Mar 15^th, 2010 at 3:48pm:

The 0844 number rings until someone answers it as "County Court Helpdesk". I wonder which court it is answered at.

From what we know, it looks like numbers at each court are of the form:

Bedford 01234 3190xx
Hitchin 01462 4454xx
St Albans 01727 7532xx

I spoke to the Hitchin court staff last year who then said that the call centre for St Albans and Hitchin County Courts was actually based at Hitchin County Court office. I suspect they are still based there.

The situation has changed following new information received this morning from the regional Courts Service office who now say:
The helpdesk has now been relocated from Hitchin to Luton.
Indeed this is confirmed by looking at their website gives number 0844 892 0550 for Luton County Court. So the disease has now spread to Luton! Unlike the other courts they give no email address for Luton.

Luton's code is 01582 but I don't know the old phone number. Crown court is 01582 522000.

The letter I received also says:
...the new number actually begins 0844 which serves St Albans, Hitchin and Bedford County Courts is charged at local call rate and not a premium rate charge. This number is still charged at local rate when calls are received from outside the geographical area. The use of this number does not generate revenue for HMCS.
No mention of Luton County Court here.

The same letter further says:
The helpdesk has been introduced for HM Court Service to improve the service we provide with the resources available and to bring the service we provide in line with other government departments and organisations. Telephone calls going through the helpdesk mean that certain services we provide can be dealt with centrally.

Any suggestions as to wording of my reply?

Back to top

IP Logged

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: Bedford County Court
Reply #18 - Apr 1^st, 2010 at 1:02am

joli wrote on Mar 30^th, 2010 at 10:56am:

The letter I received also says:
...the new number actually begins 0844 which serves St Albans, Hitchin and Bedford County Courts is charged at local call rate and not a premium rate charge. This number is still charged at local rate when calls are received from outside the geographical area. The use of this number does not generate revenue for HMCS.

Sadly, these points are all too common in responses.

This idiot should note guidance from the Contact Council, the body formed by representatives of various public sector services:
http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/350318/numbering_clarification1002.pdf

Quote:

0843 and 0844 – these are relatively new non-geographic numbers charged at up to 5 pence per minute on some fixed networks and marginally more on others. Calls from mobiles cost considerably more and prices may vary widely between networks. These number ranges are not usually included in call packages.

Also, Trading Standards Institute document 180805 which suggests "local rate" with respect to 084 numbers is against the law due to it being misleading:
http://www.richmond.gov.uk/fair_trading_inc_pricing?article=180805

Also:-

0844 is not a "Premium Rate Service" as regulated by PhonepayPlus; this applies to 0871/2/3 and 09xx numbers. However there is a premium attached.
The letter denies receipt of revenue payments; so HMCS receives benefit from callers in the form of reduced service charges by its 0844 communications provider.

joli wrote on Mar 30^th, 2010 at 10:56am:

The same letter further says:
The helpdesk has been introduced for HM Court Service to improve the service we provide with the resources available and to bring the service we provide in line with other government departments and organisations. Telephone calls going through the helpdesk mean that certain services we provide can be dealt with centrally.

Any suggestions as to wording of my reply?

There are two separate issues:
1. The use of the 0844 premium number.
2. Centralisation of the service.

Clearly you are in opposition to the 0844 revenue charging number. It might be worth giving consideration to where you stand on the issue of the centralisation of the service. If it's not a problem to you, then you could make that clear in your response; that the issue is the "rip-off" number.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 1^st, 2010 at 1:56am by Dave »

IP Logged

idb Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,499 Miami, Florida, United States Gender:	Re: Bedford County Court Reply #19 - Apr 1^st, 2010 at 1:50am joli wrote on Mar 30^th, 2010 at 10:56am: [...]Any suggestions as to wording of my reply? You could start with "Dear cretins" and take it from there.
Back to top	As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages. IP Logged

joli

Newbie

Offline

Posts: 21

Re: Bedford/Hitchin/St Albans County Court
Reply #20 - May 1^st, 2010 at 1:00pm

I have now had a reply to my complaint from Court Service HQ. Here is the relevant extract from the reply:

To use an 03xx number there is a cost to the Department, the minimum being 5p per minute to receive a call. The caller is guaranteed the call cost of an 01, 02 call regardless of the normal tariff applied by their carrier.

We have searched for information on the 0844 number and agree with you that it is not a 'Local' call and the term should not have been used as suggested by yourself. Please accept my apologies on behalf of H M Courts Service but it was a honest mistake. We confirm the phrase will not be used again.

In relation to the Essex, Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire contact centre Pilot, originally based in Hitchin, the use of an 03xx number was considered. The decision to go with the 0844 was a local management one after Headquarters gave them all the options. However, there is another Pilot that as far as I am aware went live on 20 April 2010 which is the fore runner of the National Civil Contact Centre. The pilot site is located in Coventry and they are using an 03xx number. In addition, you mention the "Clarification Document" which was published in May 09 and updated in February 2010. The 0844 number was applied for in March 09, so this document did not apply at the time. I can confirm that 03xx numbers are under consideration by the Department but as they have a cost implication it's a business decision.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: Bedford/Hitchin/St Albans County Court
Reply #21 - May 1^st, 2010 at 1:44pm

joli wrote on May 1^st, 2010 at 1:00pm:

To use an 03xx number there is a cost to the Department, the minimum being 5p per minute to receive a call. …

The cost they are charged depends on their choice of provider and services taken. The providers I have seen online charge around a penny or two per minute, tops. So what is so special that they would consider paying 5 pence per minute? Huh

At the end of the day, what they are saying in this response is that they must impose a service charge on callers. That is, so they don't have to pay the alleged 5 pence per minute. So they're using a premium number to subsidise their costs and initially claimed it was the same as a local call. Roll Eyes

Back to top

« Last Edit: May 1^st, 2010 at 1:46pm by Dave »

IP Logged

joli

Newbie

Offline

Posts: 21

Re: Bedford/Hitchin/St Albans County Court
Reply #22 - May 11^th, 2010 at 11:18am

Dave wrote on May 1^st, 2010 at 1:44pm:

joli wrote on May 1^st, 2010 at 1:00pm:

To use an 03xx number there is a cost to the Department, the minimum being 5p per minute to receive a call. …

The cost they are charged depends on their choice of provider and services taken. The providers I have seen online charge around a penny or two per minute, tops. So what is so special that they would consider paying 5 pence per minute? Huh

At the end of the day, what they are saying in this response is that they must impose a service charge on callers. That is, so they don't have to pay the alleged 5 pence per minute. So they're using a premium number to subsidise their costs and initially claimed it was the same as a local call. Roll Eyes

I am wondering how to proceed from here. Can I assume that the 0844 number they provide is part of NTS? My understanding of NTS is that somewhere along the process an incoming call to the 0844 number is redirected to a geographic number (01 or 02). If this is correct then there will be an 01/02 number, rather than 0844 being the last resting place of the incoming call.

On the assumption that my understanding is correct I am putting in a Freedom of Information request asking for the 01/02 number that the 0844 number is translated to as well as details of the 0844 provider. Is that a reasonable request or are they likely to find a tecchnical (eg 0844 does not translate to 01/02) or legal objection to this FoI request?

Back to top

IP Logged

joli Newbie Offline Posts: 21	Re: Bedford/Hitchin/St Albans County Court Reply #23 - May 28^th, 2010 at 7:47pm I'm pleased to report that the FoI request worked. The number 0844 892 0550 diverts to 01582 506 728. This number is for Hertford County Court, Luton County Court as well as Hitchin, Bedford and St Albans County Courts. Could you please update the database accordingly.
Back to top	IP Logged

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: Bedford/Hitchin/St Albans County Court
Reply #24 - May 30^th, 2010 at 7:49pm

joli wrote on May 28^th, 2010 at 7:47pm:

I'm pleased to report that the FoI request worked. The number 0844 892 0550 diverts to 01582 506 728. This number is for Hertford County Court, Luton County Court as well as Hitchin, Bedford and St Albans County Courts. Could you please update the database accordingly.

Thanks for that, I've updated the listings.

The note by the entry says that it for Bedford County Court, Hertford County Court, Hitchin County Court, Luton County Court, St Albans County Court & Watford County Court. If you know of any other courts that this applies to, then please post here to let me know and I will add it.

The cancer has spread to Southend County Court which now publishes 0844 892 4000 for contact. Cry

Back to top

IP Logged

speedy

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 148
Dartford
Gender: female

Re: Bedford/Hitchin/St Albans County Court
Reply #25 - Aug 22^nd, 2012 at 11:08pm

I was reading this very old Thread and came across a link that takes you to an uptodate Page which gives the I believe Now phone number of North Tyneside Mag. Court which it states to phone 0191 2960099 because of a Power Cut in Newcastle

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/complaints/directors_region/directo...

I tried to post the link but it wouldn't copy normally so tried Quote as Above - hope it works - This appears to be a News and Emergency Instruction Page that is current - and uptodated whilst the Post it was in was dated 22 Mar 2010 by joli.

Thought I should post this to ask Dave to check out this Linked Page because you may be able to get more info from it on other phone numbers.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 22^nd, 2012 at 11:18pm by speedy »

IP Logged