SAYNOTO0870.COM - Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service

bazzerfewi

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Baz

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Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Jul 29^th, 2009 at 6:00am

Hi Everybody "DOWN WITH THE WRIP OFF 118 SERVICES"

THIS IS THE BEST ALTERNATIVE 118 SERVICE I COULD COME UP WITH

I WOULD RATHER IT WAS FREE TO THE CUSTOMER BUT THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE

I have created a programme called "RingLcoal THE ALTERNATIVE LOCAL 118 SERVICE" it is an alternative 118 programme soon to be launched in the Barnsley Area. If this programme is successful the plan is to introduce it to other areas of the UK. It goes against the grain a little but I have to deliver this service via an 0845 number this is because there are only 2 of us running this project and we do not have the funds at our disposal that other telcom companies have and this is the only way we could think to dleiver the service without it costing us a forturne:- Here Goes-suggestions welcome

The call will be delivered via an 0845 Number (we have looked into 03 numbers but they are not suitable)
A live operator will then pick up the call
The operator will then search for the number required (local van hire for example)
The caller will hear a strapline ad (This Call IS SPONSORED BY A LOCAL BARNSLEY Firm) e
The advert part pays the call and the client pays 5p per minute for the call duration(Reverse Charge Call)
Research Suggests
The customer is happy because they have been connected with the service they are looking for
The client is happy because they are connected to a potential customer
The client is also happy because they only pay for the call when they are connected
At RingLocal we guarantee first connection every time or your money back I would appreciate constructive feedback please.

This thread is now closed as there is a later one that has been started by the same member:

Click here to go to "118 FREECALL" thread

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« Last Edit: Nov 13^th, 2011 at 11:30pm by Dave »

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Tanllan Supreme Member Offline Posts: 797 Gender:	Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service Reply #1 - Jul 29^th, 2009 at 7:33am 'morning. Seems a cracking idea. But, fearing for the flak, why was 03x unsuitable? Lack of routeing flexibility, live, dynamic delivery or what? And will 0845 still be acceptable after the BT &co tariff changes (9p connection, ye gods). Yours, nervously, Tanllan.
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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #2 - Jul 29^th, 2009 at 7:34am

If the service relies entirely on subscribing businesses, and every call carries an advert, why should the caller have to pay at all?

Could it not be on a freephone number, for landline callers only?

It is hit and miss as to whether a business of the type required has subscribed anyway. Callers may therefore enjoy the sponsor's advert in return for nothing at all.

This is use of a revenue sharing number simply to deliver advertising. I don't think that it fits very well with the concepts of saynoto0870.

Will an alternative geo number be published in the database?

Beware of complaints to Trading Standards about use of the term "lo-call".

Good luck with the business, but I would suggest that this is not the place to promote it, in its present form.

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bazzerfewi

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Baz

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #3 - Jul 29^th, 2009 at 9:03am

I take on your points an 01/02 alternative number can be made available, one of the main reasons for the 0845 number is for the portability and more importantly it has to be memorable (0845 2 118 118 not live at present) also we will be using operators in Australia and other ex pat countries this will enable us to provide a 24 hour service. If the programme is to work it has to generate its own revenue as we are only 2 working from home with an idea that may provide a suitable alternative to the present wrip of 118 services. Also I am no experit in the telecoms industy I have jiust researched the 118 services and I feel that there is a need for a suitalbe alternative.

All help and suggestions welcome, I am a Barnsley lad and if there is any body out there with suggestions please let me know.

Baz

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bazzerfewi

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #4 - Jul 29^th, 2009 at 4:02pm

I reply to your earlier coment

I have now researched the alternative 0345 2 118 118 the only draw back is that we have to wait for ofcom and they say it could take up to 3 months the change the number but in the mean time I will publish the STD alternaternative on this site when the service is up and runnig.

Feed back as always please.

Baz

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Dave

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #5 - Jul 29^th, 2009 at 4:06pm

bazzerfewi wrote on Jul 29^th, 2009 at 4:02pm:

I have now researched the alternative 0345 2 118 118 the only draw back is that we have to wait for ofcom and they say it could take up to 3 months the change the number but in the mean time I will publish the STD alternaternative on this site when the service is up and runnig.

0345 is set aside for migration from 0845. Can you not have a 033x number?

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bazzerfewi

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Baz

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #6 - Jul 29^th, 2009 at 4:19pm

Hi Dave

I have been in contact with Ofcom and they advised that the 0345 was the local option, because that is the number set aside as an alternative to the 0845 number.

As you are aware this will enable customers to ring all numbers including mobiles for the price of a local call, this number is better than an 0800 number because mobile providers hike the cost to the customer.

If there is something I have not covered your input would be appreciated

(I don't know about you but I remember the 0345 number ranges the first time around)

Baz

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Dave

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #7 - Jul 30^th, 2009 at 12:30am

bazzerfewi wrote on Jul 29^th, 2009 at 4:19pm:

Hi Dave

I have been in contact with Ofcom and they advised that the 0345 was the local option, because that is the number set aside as an alternative to the 0845 number.

As you are aware this will enable customers to ring all numbers including mobiles for the price of a local call, this number is better than an 0800 number because mobile providers hike the cost to the customer.

If there is something I have not covered your input would be appreciated

(I don't know about you but I remember the 0345 number ranges the first time around)

Baz

Yes, I remember 0345 used to be local rate. Those numbers were migrated to 08457.

All (the new) 03xx numbers are charged the same. So it is not the case that 0345 is the same as a "local call" and others such as 0330, 0333, 0370 are not.

Thus, if you are looking to take the 03 route, then 0330 and 0333 will charge just the same as 0345. Wink

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bazzerfewi

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #8 - Jul 30^th, 2009 at 7:27am

Hi Dave

If the charges are the same for the 0345 as the 03 numbers then the 0345 number has got to be the best option because the number that is available is 0345 2 118 188(not live yet) - it is an 0845 number at present but ofcom say the number can be changed to form 0845 2 118XXX to 0345 2 118XXX.

I am in contact with the company that has the number, problem is that it will take around 3 months to port the number.

Unfortunately the only alternative is to use an 0845 2 118 number in the first instance, but I will post the alternative STD number on the site assuming everything comes togeather, there are still a number of hurdles to get over the biggest one being the customer awareness.

I am very passionate about RingLocal and I am sure that if we get it right it will be a winner, it has been a long hall and still a way to got yet but I am plodding on.

What are your thoughts on RingLocal Dave, my biggest fear is that there are plenty of companies out there that could provide this service, I just wonder why they haven't.

Thanks for your feedback I always read with interest.

Baz

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derrick

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #9 - Jul 30^th, 2009 at 10:16am

I just wish you would stop referring to ANY call as a "local" call, (including your terms, "RingLocal" and, "THE ALTERNATIVE LOCAL 118 SERVICE"), as there is no such term, and in fact breaks the Consumer Protection Act 1987 Part III,Misleading price indications!

All numbers beginning 01/02/03 regardless of distance are charged at the same rate as your originating telco, this has been the case since July 2004, i.e. they are charged as a mobile does!

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #10 - Jul 30^th, 2009 at 10:47am

Baz

Nothing personal, as many members would wish you well in realising your business objectives. We must however be fair minded and surely should not be using this forum to help promote a service that will rely on use of a revenue-sharing number, no matter how reluctantly. You may wish to look at the way in which other attempts to justify use of revenue sharing numbers are handled in this forum, where any modest inaccuracy is treated very unkindly.

Whilst some may disagree, I do not see publishing a geographic alternative on this site as the complete answer to our objections to use of revenue sharing numbers. If you can present a proposal that refuses to benefit from use of a 0845 number, then you may expect our whole-hearted support.

From your recent responses it sounds as though you are already committed to 0845 2 118 118, as you refer only to migrating to the 0345 equivalent.

Perhaps with regret, you must be subject to the same criticism that is offered to any other user of 0845 numbers. We can show sensitivity to the reasons for the decision to use 0845 and sympathy for the problems of changing, but we must oppose.

derrick wrote on Jul 30^th, 2009 at 10:16am:

I just wish you would stop referring to ANY call as a "local" call, (including your terms, "RingLocal" and, "THE ALTERNATIVE LOCAL 118 SERVICE"), as there is no such term, and in fact breaks the Consumer Protection Act 1987 Part III,Misleading price indications!

All numbers beginning 01/02/03 regardless of distance are charged at the same rate as your originating telco, this has been the case since July 2004, i.e. they are charged as a mobile does!

This point is true in general, but not totally accurate. A service and a call can be "local", the question is about a "local RATE".

The distinction between "local" and "national" calls does still exist and is applied to some landline tariffs, however the vast majority of residential landline callers presently pay the same for both types of call. Talk Talk has recently re-introduced the distinction with its "free local calls" offer. There is no indication of anyone else copying this, however the possibility cannot be ignored.

For the time being, and in general, there is no such thing as a "local call rate". That is the term that must not be used.

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bazzerfewi

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Baz

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #11 - Jul 31^st, 2009 at 1:15am

NOTHING PERSONAL BUT YOU MUST GET YOUR FACT RIGHT If that reply is not personal I don’t know what is you have attacked a service that you appear to know very little about. What I actually said was that the 0845 service would be used temporarily as it takes around 3 months to sort the 0345 number. An 0345 number is not for revenue share according to Ofcom, it is to stop companies charging a fortune for services they provide. The 0345 number has restrictions and even when called from a mobile the tariff cannot be hiked up as it is a NONE REVENUE SHARE NUMBER IF YOU HAD TOOK TIME CARRY OUT THE RESEARCH IN THE FIRST PLACE YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS.
At RingLocal we have spent a great deal of time and effort keeping it to a minimum cost for the caller, if I was here to rip people off the service would have been up and running a long time ago. I am attempting to offer a local cost effective alternative to the high cost 118 services and you are doing your best to jeopardise that
I am not committed to anybody or any service provider it is just that the number is an 0345 2 118 118 is memorable and promotes the local alternative service. Also if in my last post I stated that I would publish the STD number for use on this site, in any event the 0345 is a none revenue share number none geographical number in my book that is LOCAL RATE, and that term was used by the Ofcom agent.
RINGLOCAL IS TO BE SET UP TO ATTACK THE EXPENSIVE 118 SERVICES AND IT SITS VERY WELL WITH SAYNO AS EARLIER STATES 0345 IS NOT A REVENUE SHARE SERVICE

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andy9 Supreme Member Offline Posts: 505	Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service Reply #12 - Jul 31^st, 2009 at 8:39am Apologies, naive question, though it is on the local number theme: if it's in Barnsley, and promoting businesses local to Barnsley, what's wrong with using a Barnsley number?
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derrick

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #13 - Jul 31^st, 2009 at 10:52am

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 30^th, 2009 at 10:47am:

derrick wrote on Jul 30^th, 2009 at 10:16am:

I just wish you would stop referring to ANY call as a "local" call, (including your terms, "RingLocal" and, "THE ALTERNATIVE LOCAL 118 SERVICE"), as there is no such term, and in fact breaks the Consumer Protection Act 1987 Part III,Misleading price indications!

All numbers beginning 01/02/03 regardless of distance are charged at the same rate as your originating telco, this has been the case since July 2004, i.e. they are charged as a mobile does!

This point is true in general, but not totally accurate. A service and a call can be "local", the question is about a "local RATE".

The distinction between "local" and "national" calls does still exist and is applied to some landline tariffs, however the vast majority of residential landline callers presently pay the same for both types of call. Talk Talk has recently re-introduced the distinction with its "free local calls" offer. There is no indication of anyone else copying this, however the possibility cannot be ignored.

For the time being, and in general, there is no such thing as a "local call rate". That is the term that must not be used.

The following is a quote from; - http://www.asa.org.uk/cap/news_events/news/2005/hanging+on+the+telephone+on+and+... and whilst it is a few years old the contents still applies. In other publications similar advice is given!

"Consequently, the CAP Copy Advice team advises:

•

Marketers should not describe 084 and 087 numbers as ‘local’ or ‘national’

• Marketers should not be silent on price
• Marketers are unlikely to know the maximum charges for calling their services made by non-BT phone companies (largely because there are so many of them and their prices change reasonably frequently). If they do, they should state the maximum cost of the call or price per minute (ppm)
• Those marketers who do not know the maximum cost charged across the different phone companies should state the cost (either per minute or per call) for BT customers. For example, marketers could claim “Calls to 084XX from BT landlines will cost 5p pm "

With TalkTalk, they are just muddying the waters,(as BT do), and is related to an area and,I think, relates to people opting in to that scheme which I understand makes those 'local' calls inclusive of their call package(?), but anyone on TalkTalk will still call 01/02/03 numbers for the same cost irrespective of distance!
The very small percentage that "local" relates to is so inconsequential that it is not relevant and Ofcon, ASA, CAP etc all tell that the term should not be used, you know this yet continue to trot out the misinformation!

From East Sussex TS; -
http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/735C4641-4E0A-48DA-BA19-8A5007CE0AB6/0...

"For the small minority of BT customers who remain on BT standard rates eg. residential 'light user' customers), '0845' is still charged at local rate and '0870' at national rate.
However, for most callers, including those on BT together and most other landline, cable, mobile and VoIP providers, it costs more to call '0845/0870."

Again historical re the date of the pamphlet, but still relevant under Consumer Protection Act 1987 (Part III) Misleading Price Indications

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bazzerfewi

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Baz

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Re: Alternative Lo-Call 118 Service
Reply #14 - Jul 31^st, 2009 at 11:56am

I have been giving some serious thought to the RingLocal service and how it would be behest delivered, it is my intention to come up with a programme that will accommodate most people.

There needs to be 3 access numbers this will give the caller the choice to use the most appropriate number

1) 0345 this will enable callers to ring mobile numbers and std numbers at low rate tariff
2) 0800 this number will enable callers to ring numbers free excluding mobiles

If both these numbers are published as well as the std number I think this will enable all callers to access the service at either a reasonable call cost or for a FREE call.

I welcome your feedback

Baz

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