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Freephone numbers should be FREE, always (Read 9,914 times)
Vendeka
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Freephone numbers should be FREE, always
Sep 5th, 2009 at 10:15pm
 
Consumers need to reclaim Freephone as free phone calls. No conditions, just free within the UK.

Freephone numbers 0800 (and now 0808) were originally intended to be free to the caller. That principle was obscured and then corrupted by the mobile phone companies, with the consent of Oftel/Ofcom, leading to the current bodge where 03-numbers might be free in some circumstances if the mobile phone companies allow it.

How can we reclaim Freephone as FREE phone calls?
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Freephone numbers should be FREE, always
Reply #1 - Sep 5th, 2009 at 11:26pm
 
Nothing is "free". Calls to 080x numbers are only "free" to the caller because the recipient pays for them.

It is widely accepted that the costs of mobile telephony are fully reflected in call charges rather than in "line rental". That is essentially why it is more expensive to call a mobile than a landline.

If those who use 080x numbers had been keen to pay the full cost of receiving calls from mobiles then they would have been beating down the doors of Ofcom to allow them to do this. I have not myself heard even a whimper to this effect.

The Telephone Helplines Association has brokered arrangements whereby mobile companies waive their charges on calls to some registered "helplines". This essentially voluntary scheme must not be threatened by attempts to extend it beyond the point where it works.

The DWP appears to be keen to pay for calls from mobiles but has not yet got its act together to make this work. If this were to be achieved then this could provide a model for others to follow.

In answer to the question "how can we reclaim Freephone?", one has to start with those who wish to offer this facility.

If those who offer 080x numbers are to be required to cover the full cost of calls from mobiles as well as landlines, consider whether some would withdraw the facility altogether.

Many suggest the whole basis on which mobile telephony is paid for needs to be changed. That too would have winners and losers.
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bazzerfewi
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Re: Freephone numbers should be FREE, always
Reply #2 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 8:06am
 
As far as legistation goes how can ofcom justify allowing mobile phone companies to charge mobile callers for an 0800 number when it is widely known that 0800 numbers are free and have been for a long time

The 0800 number has been widely used since the early 90s and I am curious how ofcom can change the use of an 0800 number for the mobile networks when this service was introduced long before the mobile phone was introduced to the general public.

I assume that companies get around the legislation by charging a connection fee and not charging for the actual call

Is there not an act of parliament that states that 0800 numbers should be totally free for both connection and the charge of the call.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Freephone numbers should be FREE, always
Reply #3 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 8:56am
 
I understand the emotional reaction to something that is thought of as being FREE being charged for, but we must remember that nothing is totally free.

080x calls are paid for by the recipient. Having signed up to meet the cost of calls from landlines, users of 080x numbers may be reluctant to meet the full cost of calls from mobiles. Clearly this is so as there no evidence of them complaining about not being able to do this.

To advance this matter we need to identify the people who are frustrated at not being allowed to meet the full cost of incoming calls from mobiles.

When we have evidence that Ofcom is guilty of failing to respond to their needs, then we can blame Ofcom.

If we are unhappy that mobile companies charge the caller when the cost of the call is not being met by the recipient, we have to suggest who else should pay.

There certainly is legislation preventing anyone from describing a 080x number as being free to call without specifying that this only applies to national calls from landlines and payphones.
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Dave
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Re: Freephone numbers should be FREE, always
Reply #4 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 11:13am
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Sep 6th, 2009 at 8:06am:
As far as legistation goes how can ofcom justify allowing mobile phone companies to charge mobile callers for an 0800 number when it is widely known that 0800 numbers are free and have been for a long time

No they are not "free"! The receipient pays a charge which is passed to call providers such as BT, Talk Talk and Virgin Media. This effectively covers the charge that would have otherwise have been levied on the callers.

So if you call John Smith on his 0800 number, you landline provider will not charge you. Instead, Mr Smith will be billed per minute for calls received. The call is therefore free to the caller, but not "free" per se.
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catj
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Re: Freephone numbers should be FREE, always
Reply #5 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 1:45am
 
There are plenty of unused prefixes between 0800 and 0809 for a new code to be issued for calls that are free from a mobile as well as from a landline.

Ofcom should make the code available and then see who actually utilises it for their customer-base to get in contact.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Freephone numbers should be FREE, always
Reply #6 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 5:16am
 
catj wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 1:45am:
There are plenty of unused prefixes between 0800 and 0809 for a new code to be issued for calls that are free from a mobile as well as from a landline.

Ofcom should make the code available and then see who actually utilises it for their customer-base to get in contact.

As number ranges are considered to be a "national resource" it would be normal to first consult on such a proposal to get a preliminary indication of the likely take-up, to ensure that it is not wasted. (I am very concerned that "111" will end up being wasted, despite the consultation.)

With that qualification, I fully support your suggestion. I will be delighted to throw my weight behind any campaigning efforts along these lines. I do however believe that it would need just a few potential users to champion the campaign before it could be taken seriously. I am working on the DWP, but it is not yet ready to take this position. Although claiming to be in favour of equity, the government is presently looking at way of saving, rather than spending, money.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: Freephone numbers should be FREE, always
Reply #7 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 9:03pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Sep 6th, 2009 at 8:56am:
I understand the emotional reaction to something that is thought of as being FREE being charged for, but we must remember that nothing is totally free.


I don't recall ever being charged for breathing oxygen (other than onboard an aircraft) or having sunlight fall on my skin in a public park.  As ever SCV you are trying to over complicate something simple (something I am often also guilty of but am only at the mere novice stage in studying compare to your good self).  08 clearly implies free to the caller and it is obvious someone else pays somewhere along the line and it is just the fact that 08 historically screams "free to caller" but no longer is in many circumstances in the UK that is being objected to.

Quote:
To advance this matter we need to identify the people who are frustrated at not being allowed to meet the full cost of incoming calls from mobiles.

When we have evidence that Ofcom is guilty of failing to respond to their needs, then we can blame Ofcom.


Are you sure you don't have a day job working for Ofcom as this is just the kind of nonsense speak people in their call centres always come up with all the time in order to fob off legitimate complaints from members of the public. Shocked Angry

Quote:
If we are unhappy that mobile companies charge the caller when the cost of the call is not being met by the recipient, we have to suggest who else should pay.


No we don't that is Ofcom's problem to sort out.  We just have to complain that a number range that advertises the number called is free is used but it is now misleading and that Ofcom has allowed this to occur to the detriment of the calling public.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Freephone numbers should be FREE, always
Reply #8 - Sep 24th, 2009 at 9:49am
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 23rd, 2009 at 9:03pm:
As ever SCV you are trying to over complicate something simple (something I am often also guilty of but am only at the mere novice stage in studying compare to your good self).

We can argue about who is over-complicating something simple and who is over-simplifying something complex until the cows come home. I hope that we are both trying to understand the truth of a situation and present it as clearly as we can.

I am pleased you recognise that you pay for oxygen on an aircraft through your fare, for the general air quality through the taxes that are used to fund enforcement of relevant regulations and for the upkeep of a municipal public park through your Council Tax.

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 23rd, 2009 at 9:03pm:
Quote:
If we are unhappy that mobile companies charge the caller when the cost of the call is not being met by the recipient, we have to suggest who else should pay.

No we don't that is Ofcom's problem to sort out.  We just have to complain that a number range that advertises the number called is free is used but it is now misleading and that Ofcom has allowed this to occur to the detriment of the calling public.

I regard Ofcom as a bunch of normal people, fallible civil servants working for us, rather than some deity that can be presented with irresolvable problems and then held accountable for not having found a resolution.
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