SAYNOTO0870.COM - Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 numbers

PrimoUK

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Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 numbers
Nov 2^nd, 2009 at 1:42pm

Hi All
Abbey (Santander)
Are actively stopping people from using this number 01908 237963 unless they are phoning from abroad. They are also trying to stop the use of their 0800 numbers as a way of getting to customer services re personal accounts. Are they obtaining money when people use the 0870 & 0845 numbers?

Primo UK

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Dave

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #1 - Nov 2^nd, 2009 at 1:58pm

Hi and welcome to SAYNOTO0870.COM.

Abbey is evidently trying to mirror its sister company, Alliance & Leicester (more on A&L customers who have been "banned" from calling non-premium numbers here).

When you call the 01908 number, make sure you withhold your number, although there's no guarantee that that will have any effect.

From 1 August the process that supported revenue sharing on 0870 numbers was scrapped. BT and some other providers have reacted by bringing their 0870 prices into line with 01/02/03 calls, although notably Virgin Media and the mobile operators have not.

You ask whether companies on 0845 numbers are obtaining money, but that's not the real point. Regardless of whether they revenue share directly with their telephone provider, they are benefitting through subsidy from callers. This happens in all cases, regardless of whether the caller is on an inclusive tariff or not.

For this reason, if they wish to operate a non-geographical number, they should switch to a 03xx one. These are are cost-neutral, that is they are priced inline with geographical calls for everyone.

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PrimoUK Newbie Offline Posts: 2	Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num Reply #2 - Nov 2^nd, 2009 at 2:03pm Many thanks for the info Primo UK
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jamesbond Senior Member Offline Posts: 301 Suffolk Gender:	Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num Reply #3 - Nov 2^nd, 2009 at 8:06pm Hi there! Surely, it must be possible to contact Abbey via their Spanish owners. I do believe, that there are telecoms companies such as Easydial and Alpha Telecom that could be used to circum vent these 0845 and 0870 prefix numbers, via a telephone call to Satander in Spain. James Bond
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Alternative

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #4 - Nov 19^th, 2009 at 2:42am

It still doesn't work using the 141 in front. It somehow detects that the call is still a UK call in origin and tells you to ring the premium rate number. I am going to try with my 'charged up' e-kit telecoms account as that has the effect of making the call appear 'International' in origin. The call won't be free but still probably less than dialling Abbey's NGN number!

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« Last Edit: Nov 19^th, 2009 at 2:43am by Alternative »

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #5 - Nov 19^th, 2009 at 4:28am

The telephone network provides receiving telcos with not only the CLI (which can be withheld), but also the originating location data, the first part of the calling number (which cannot, as there are no personal privacy implications).

This data is available for use in routing calls to a local, or otherwise appropriate, point. It can therefore be used to advise callers that they have called a number not intended for their use.

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@fairtelecoms (tweets)

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Barbara

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #6 - Nov 19^th, 2009 at 10:23am

Just a thought, I was going to ask this elsewhere as it is general but also seems to fit the exchange here - if you have inclusive minutes on a mobile and use these to call an organisation via the international number, ensuring you dial to whole number including the international code (which you can do within the UK from a mobile), surely the receiving organisation won't know where you are as they will just get the mobile no & you could be calling from anywhere in the world?

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Alternative

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #7 - Nov 19^th, 2009 at 11:50am

Yes Barbara - thanks for your posting. Yes it works. Dial 00 44 1908 xxxxxx and you get through. I think that this is probably the only way that we can ring these kinds of numbers in the future as their telcoms software is getting wise to the origin of the calls even with using CLI withold facility.

It is now a ridiculous state of affairs now that a mobile has to be cheaper than phoning a UK NGN or that it should be cheaper to phone say for example, Microsoft or Dell in America using 18185 or other provider than phoning the premium rate UK NGN and, YES, I do regard 0845 & 0870 as being premium rate as I have a fixed fee landline calling plan with Virgin Media, but in addition to the fixed fee I pay for total UK talk, I am surcharged on top of this for every minute I am connected to an 0844/4/70 number, so I avoid them like the plague!

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Heinz

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #8 - Nov 19^th, 2009 at 4:34pm

Alternative wrote on Nov 19^th, 2009 at 11:50am:

Yes Barbara - thanks for your posting. Yes it works. Dial 00 44 1908 xxxxxx and you get through. I think that this is probably the only way that we can ring these kinds of numbers in the future as their telcoms software is getting wise to the origin of the calls even with using CLI withold facility.

For those of us without inclusive minutes (on a mobile or landline), what about calling via 1899/18185/18866 (they all present 'International' as a CLI to my BT line)?

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« Last Edit: Nov 19^th, 2009 at 4:36pm by Heinz »

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015

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Dave

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #9 - Nov 19^th, 2009 at 4:40pm

Heinz wrote on Nov 19^th, 2009 at 4:34pm:

Alternative wrote on Nov 19^th, 2009 at 11:50am:

Yes Barbara - thanks for your posting. Yes it works. Dial 00 44 1908 xxxxxx and you get through. I think that this is probably the only way that we can ring these kinds of numbers in the future as their telcoms software is getting wise to the origin of the calls even with using CLI withold facility.

For those of us without inclusive minutes (on a mobile or landline), what about calling via 1899/18185/18866 (they all present 'International' as a CLI to my BT line)?

Just tried it on mine and it presents the number in normal national format. Huh

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #10 - Nov 19^th, 2009 at 4:47pm

Good work both.

It therefore seems that the location information provided with calls from mobiles does not cause this system to reject them.

Trying to dial the number using the international format does not make any difference. My (Nokia) mobile replaces 0044 at the front of a number with a 0, as it also replaces + with 00. It is therefore not possible for me to force a UK call to be routed through an international exchange, which may be thought to be the factor that makes the difference.

A simple test shows that dialling 01908 237963 from a mobile gets through to the IVR, whereas from a landline a message advises that one must redial.

The next question to ask is of whether the blocking technique is intended to ensure that overseas callers get easier access (e.g. a shorter wait and thereby a reduction in the sizable cost of calling from overseas) or if it is simply to protect the revenue share subsidy.

A liberalised market in telecoms (as in any other area) will inevitably lead to perverse situations arising. Is "Alternative" asking for services like 18185 and Ryanair, as well as all special offers by retailers, to be prohibited, so that all can appear sensible? Many of us would indeed wish to see the regulatory limitations on the price that BT can charge for calls to 084 numbers lifted, although some would be reluctant to be seen to be calling for prices to increase!

All calls to 084 numbers are charged at a premium rate, because the higher termination fee has to be funded somehow. I believe that it is fairer for this cost to be carried by those who call these numbers, rather than by telephone users in general. The perverse effect with BT is created by the fact that the premium on calls to 084 numbers is on top of an unusually low margin (nominally 0) that is set by regulation. No business can operate without a margin, so the cost of ordinary calls is obviously higher. These regulations do not apply to Virgin Media, which therefore reflects its costs more directly in its charges. These include a premium on calls to all 084 numbers.

I often pretend surprise at the fact that those who use 084 numbers are not disappointed that they are not designated as providers of "Premium rate services". Some even argue furiously to claim that the standard of their service is unworthy of such recognition.

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floella2

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #11 - Mar 28^th, 2010 at 11:53pm

Hey all...

This is a situation that is beginning to grate me!

I only became aware of the block on the 01908 number in January 2010 and it seemed to coincide with the change to Santander.

I emailed the UK chairman, Antonio.Osorio@santander.co.uk, asking him if the blocking of calls to 01908 237963 was one of 'the changes we think you may like' as advertised in 2009.

Mr Osorio forwarded it onto one of his footsoldiers who advised me that if I had a complaint I should call the 0845 complaints number! In disbelief, I forwarded the reply back to him, asking for his thoughts on it, only for him to delegate it again. I know he did this personally as he was in the email trail.

So..... no success with the 141 from a landline. International calls are barred from my mobile so yet to try the +44 option.

Here is where I got angry... I went to the local cashpoint to pay my credit card. They still, after 4 months, had not set this facility up. So I walked a mile and a half to the nearest branch, and they asked why I didn't just call customer services so I explained to cost of the call. They then said 'oh, well you could always come into the branch and use our phone for free'. So, to avoid being charged 40p a minute to talk about my money I have to do a 3 mile round trip? WHAT!!!!!

Now, the Alliance and Leicester similarity does seem to stand true. I cant help but wonder though if Santers spanish customers are ripped off in a similar fashion.

So, I called the complaints line and the woman got rather aggressive and told me to wite to the financial ombudsman.

WHY, AT A TIME WHERE THE BANKS ARE GETTING SUCH BAD PRESS, ARE THEY USING THESE METHODS TO CLAW WHAT IS, TO THEM, AN ABSOLUTELY NEGLIGABLE AMOUNT OF SUBSIDY?? AS FOR SWITCHING BANKS, THEY ALL USE THE SAME FLAMING NUMBERS!!!

Rant over! Sorry!!

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mainbass

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #12 - Mar 29^th, 2010 at 8:51am

floella2 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2010 at 11:53pm:

WHY, AT A TIME WHERE THE BANKS ARE GETTING SUCH BAD PRESS, ARE THEY USING THESE METHODS TO CLAW WHAT IS, TO THEM, AN ABSOLUTELY NEGLIGABLE AMOUNT OF SUBSIDY?? AS FOR SWITCHING BANKS, THEY ALL USE THE SAME FLAMING NUMBERS!!!

Hi Floella

No they don`t, have a look at http://www.lloydstsb.com/ways_to_bank_with_us/phonebank.asp?WT.ac=HPwtbPhone

Here you have a choice of the 0845 no. or a geo no. if you prefer.

Works for me. Wink

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CJT-80

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #13 - Mar 29^th, 2010 at 10:18pm

floella2 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2010 at 11:53pm:

WHY, AT A TIME WHERE THE BANKS ARE GETTING SUCH BAD PRESS, ARE THEY USING THESE METHODS TO CLAW WHAT IS, TO THEM, AN ABSOLUTELY NEGLIGABLE AMOUNT OF SUBSIDY?? AS FOR SWITCHING BANKS, THEY ALL USE THE SAME FLAMING NUMBERS!!!

I use Nationwide, now excluding their Branches they have an Geographic number to call most departments: click here for more info: just note that it is listed in International Format.. just drop the +44 and replace it with 0

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Regards,

CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com

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Heinz

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Re: Abbey (Santander) blocking their 01 & 0800 num
Reply #14 - Mar 30^th, 2010 at 3:07pm

I went into my A&L branch a few weeks ago to make an appointment to open an ISA early in the new financial year.

The nice young man who made the appointment insisted on printing out details for me - and a local (01) number was shown on the letterhead!

I noticed it that evening and, as I have free evening calls, I tried it about 7:15pm. It worked and, after 5 or 6 rings, the same young man answered!

Needless to say, that number is now in the database.

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« Last Edit: Mar 30^th, 2010 at 3:10pm by Heinz »

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015

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